1. Joined
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    20 Mar '17 09:40
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It seems a bit narrow minded to insist on 'liberal democracy'.

    [b]Then there is Drumpf’s assault on international trade and cooperation. He is already threatening Mexico, China and now the EU. Who will be next? We can debate whether globalisation benefits people equally, but only a fool would deny that international trade is a global good.

    I have ...[text shortened]... here that 'liberal democracy' and 'the global good' are in direct conflict. You can't have both.[/b]
    he means that as opposed to what conservatism means in the US: anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-minorities.

    obviously true conservatism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive
  2. RSA
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    20 Mar '17 10:37
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    he means that as opposed to what conservatism means in the US: anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-minorities.

    obviously true conservatism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive
    There is fiscal conservatism. This can be stomached and there places where it works. However, don't bring social conservatism near me. Can't see the benefit.
  3. Cape Town
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    20 Mar '17 10:441 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    he means that as opposed to what conservatism means in the US: anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-minorities.

    obviously true conservatism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive
    Whatever he means, it remains the case that 'liberal democracy' is not the only possible path to freedom nor is it necessarily the best.

    And what is 'true conservatism'?
  4. Joined
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    20 Mar '17 12:43
    While we're at it, what s this 'free world' thingy no what exactly is it free of?
  5. Joined
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    20 Mar '17 13:09
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Whatever he means, it remains the case that 'liberal democracy' is not the only possible path to freedom nor is it necessarily the best.

    And what is 'true conservatism'?
    fiscal conservatism. small government, efficient government. meticulous social change. something like that.

    fiscal conservatism doesn't mean low taxes for the rich and high taxes for the poor.
    it certainly doesn't mean no social programs but huge military spending.

    small government doesn't mean 1 guy in a room, total. it means that if you have 2 agencies doing the same thing, one has to disappear. both have to if they don't do anything.

    meticulous social change doesn't mean that gays could get married the second they asked for it 40 years ago. but it certainly doesn't mean it takes 40 years to give them this right (that they are entitled to)
  6. Cape Town
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    20 Mar '17 14:42
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    fiscal conservatism. small government, efficient government. meticulous social change. something like that.
    I take it you are a fiscal conservative? Normally people that throw around the 'true' adjective are a member of the 'true' group.
  7. Germany
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    20 Mar '17 15:43
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    Germany controls ECB policy. It's not propaganda. As the most powerful member Germany calls the shots. It's the rule of the world. He with the gold makes the rules.
    Germany doesn't control ECB policy. There hasn't even been a German head of the ECB yet. The ECB is an independent institution whose head is decided upon through the consensus of member states. It's looking like you are the very victim of the propaganda you deny exists.
  8. Subscribershavixmir
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    20 Mar '17 15:56
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Whatever he means, it remains the case that 'liberal democracy' is not the only possible path to freedom nor is it necessarily the best.

    And what is 'true conservatism'?
    It's the means of the rich getting richer and the poor scoffing faeces and thanking the rich for the honor.
  9. RSA
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    20 Mar '17 20:09
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Germany doesn't control ECB policy. There hasn't even been a German head of the ECB yet. The ECB is an independent institution whose head is decided upon through the consensus of member states. It's looking like you are the very victim of the propaganda you deny exists.
    The nationality of the head of the ECB means nothing! Germany, as the most powerful country in the EU, controls the ECB! It is not propaganda. It is the truth.

    It's not the worst thing. Better than any southern Europeans managing it (Greece lol!), and all the Nordic countries+ britain-finland had the sense not to adopt the euro.
  10. Standard memberDeepThought
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    20 Mar '17 20:39
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    The nationality of the head of the ECB means nothing! Germany, as the most powerful country in the EU, controls the ECB! It is not propaganda. It is the truth.

    It's not the worst thing. Better than any southern Europeans managing it (Greece lol!), and all the Nordic countries+ britain-finland had the sense not to adopt the euro.
    Whether something is true or not is not deterministic of whether it is propaganda. You've made a claim that the European Central Bank is controlled by Germany. Can you provide an argument or some evidence to support that?
  11. Germany
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    20 Mar '17 21:10
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    The nationality of the head of the ECB means nothing! Germany, as the most powerful country in the EU, controls the ECB! It is not propaganda. It is the truth.

    It's not the worst thing. Better than any southern Europeans managing it (Greece lol!), and all the Nordic countries+ britain-finland had the sense not to adopt the euro.
    The EU is a decentralized and fairly weak institution that requires broad consensus for most of its decisions. Sure, Germany and France are more influential than, say, Malta, but if you think that Germany is calling the shots against the will of a majority of member states you simply don't understand how the EU works - your insistence otherwise notwithstanding.
  12. Joined
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    20 Mar '17 22:10
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I take it you are a fiscal conservative? Normally people that throw around the 'true' adjective are a member of the 'true' group.
    one can talk about a concept without embracing it.
  13. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    21 Mar '17 21:20
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    Germany is the 4th largest economy in the world, the UK is 5th and France is 6th. with their current anemic growth rate France will only slide further, while the UK will overtake Germany in the next decade.
    California is 6. France is 7.
  14. Germany
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    21 Mar '17 21:31
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    California is 6. France is 7.
    The United States minus New Jersey is #2.
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