http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/08/drug_wars_death_toll_in_mexico.html
Debate any aspect, repercussions? Is Mexico demonstrating it's effectively winning its drug wars?
One of the top ranking Kingpin of the Sinaloa Cartel, whose people were nearly considered a cartel in their own right by analyst with their strength and numbers and drugs, etc, was shot and killed by the army. Ignacio "Nacho" Coronel was #3 for Sinaloa.
He follows December 2009's killing of #1 Kingpin of the Beltran-Leyva Cartel, and previous arrest of the head of the last Arellano-Felix brother of the Tijuana Cartel (since then replaced by a cousin after a war over control with a Sinaloan-allied faction since then captured), and the deportation of Gulf Cartel Leader Osiel Cardenas, all during the administration of Calderon.
EDIT: this link makes an example of and tells the story of the fall of another cartel associated with Guzman, the Beltran-Leyva's who's leader was captured while working for Guzman and the brothers broke away blaming Guzman and declared war on Sinaloa while they lasted.
http://www.theawl.com/2010/08/ciudad-juarez-ignacio-coronel-and-what-happens-after-a-drug-lord-is-killed
Originally posted by eljefejesusits a small victory for the rule of law in mexico, but considering the extent of the drug problem in the country it would be preposterous to claim this is a demonstration of a victory in the drug wars. As KN rightly pointed out, there are ultimately only two ways to win such war, and mexico hasn't done either of them.
http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/08/drug_wars_death_toll_in_mexico.html
Debate any aspect, repercussions? Is Mexico demonstrating it's effectively winning its drug wars?
One of the top ranking Kingpin of the Sinaloa Cartel, whose people were nearly considered a cartel in their own right by analyst with their strength and numbers and dr awl.com/2010/08/ciudad-juarez-ignacio-coronel-and-what-happens-after-a-drug-lord-is-killed
Originally posted by generalissimoKN isn't often right, but he's got it in one this time.
its a small victory for the rule of law in mexico, but considering the extent of the drug problem in the country it would be preposterous to claim this is a demonstration of a victory in the drug wars. As KN rightly pointed out, there are ultimately only two ways to win such war, and mexico hasn't done either of them.
Originally posted by eljefejesuswhack-a-mole
http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/08/drug_wars_death_toll_in_mexico.html
Debate any aspect, repercussions? Is Mexico demonstrating it's effectively winning its drug wars?
One of the top ranking Kingpin of the Sinaloa Cartel, whose people were nearly considered a cartel in their own right by analyst with their strength and numbers and dr ...[text shortened]... awl.com/2010/08/ciudad-juarez-ignacio-coronel-and-what-happens-after-a-drug-lord-is-killed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10860614
"More than 28,000 people have died in drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderon declared war on the drug cartels in 2006, officials say.
The figure represents an increase of some 3,000 on the previous estimates.
National intelligence chief Guillermo Valdes said real progress had been made towards breaking the cartels' power but he admitted that violence was growing."
Its seems evident that there's still a long way to go.
Originally posted by eljefejesusi dunno. there's probably a LOT of guys waiting to take his spot.
http://www.cleveland.com/world/index.ssf/2010/08/drug_wars_death_toll_in_mexico.html
Debate any aspect, repercussions? Is Mexico demonstrating it's effectively winning its drug wars?
One of the top ranking Kingpin of the Sinaloa Cartel, whose people were nearly considered a cartel in their own right by analyst with their strength and numbers and dr ...[text shortened]... awl.com/2010/08/ciudad-juarez-ignacio-coronel-and-what-happens-after-a-drug-lord-is-killed
I like and apprecaite everyone's contributions, and save for the fact that it's still no joke fighting drug cartels and legalizing drugs would help, what other suggestions.
What about a "Mexico's Most Wanted" to add to the hotlines and bountys offered up by governments on both sides of the Border.
Consider that Tijuana's cartel is a shadow of its formers self and "El Teo's destructive spree there has been cut short by capture, then his 2nd in command. Sinaloa's #3 was also useful in taking out his 2nd in command with his labtop, and the nearly defuct beltran-leyva operative are fighting over the control currently split between a blood relative and a trusted confidant/leiutenant with all the killings and captures of their top leadership in the span of 8 months.
Yes, extortions exist and many have died (including before Carlderon's War, with the biggest spike coming well into 2008), but there are new criticisms to replace old ones that have been answered. People used to allege that several of these struggling cartels were more powerful than the Mexican government, but their leadership was cut down to size.
There are replacements, but their are reports of some lieutenants preferring to stay leiutenants as the very top is under such heavy pressure and threat of death or incarceration by the millitary/navy/federal police. Messy progress, but there is more of a progression towards reducing the power of the cartel leadership than would have been believed in 2000, and in reducing impunity.
Colombians say that there is deeper penetration in Colombia than in Mexico or the US, and they're right.
The recent killings in part reflect that the powerful cartels like the Gulf are now splintering as Osiel Cardenas of the Gulf was extradited to the US and cannot run things behind bars anymore, and the Zetas vs new Gulf leadership split due to another victory against their top leadership.
It won't be easy or quick, and I agree there is much work and a long road ahead, but I believe a lot of false assumptions have been addressed.
Originally posted by zeeblebotCalderon took out Ignacio Coronel (Army), Diaz Parada (Soldiers and Federal Polics), Eduardo Arellano-Felix (Federal Police), Arturo Beltran Leyva (Navy) and a possible successor his brother Carlos Beltran Leyva (Federal Police). Not heard of any drug lords taking out other drug lords in recent times, just family of rivals many years ago when the Beltran Leyvas killed a son of El Chapo Guzman.
how many kingpins did Cardenas take out, as opposed to those who took out each other?
This old article describes some inter-cartel feuding and has rare pictures
http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB😕B124484177023110993.html
Former president Fox certainly understands how to deal with the situation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10921975
Former Mexican president Vicente Fox has called for the legalisation of drugs, arguing that prohibition has failed to curb rising drug-related violence and corruption
"Mr Fox said legalisation did not mean that drugs were good.
But he said it was a strategy that could reduce the power of the cartels.
The current Mexican president, Felipe Calderon last week called for a debate on legalisation, but he said he personally opposed the idea. "
Still not likely to actually happen given that many of the people who actually vote in the US and in Mexico are older, more conservative people who don't feel comfortable with the likelihood that if drugs are made legally they are anticipated to be consumed more and seen as more socially acceptable, plus lots of interests and drug money tainted people are probably fighting it tooth as nails as well as other conservative intersts including churches and their faithful. I agree it's the cause of much of the drug problem.
Illegal drugs and immigration would likely transition to a higher percentage of formality from more legally available supplies, it's just an economic fact.
Originally posted by eljefejesusThat is a fair point, the conservatism of certain members of society may prove to be the infelicitous deterrent of reform, however, I believe the proponents of legalization are capable of formulating a persuasive argument, if it is reinforced by statistics confirming the failure of prohibition, and the salient waste of public money on unavailing anti-drug campaigns. Surely those who are reasonable will understand that support for the status quo is simply untenable.
Still not likely to actually happen given that many of the people who actually vote in the US and in Mexico are older, more conservative people who don't feel comfortable with the likelihood that if drugs are made legally they are anticipated to be consumed more and seen as more socially acceptable, plus lots of interests and drug money tainted people ar ...[text shortened]... her percentage of formality from more legally available supplies, it's just an economic fact.