Are all the fanatics Republican?

Originally posted by Kewpie
Seems to this foreigner that all the irrational posters attack Obama. Does this mean the Republicans have always got everything right? Is there a Democrat equivalent for the Tea Party?

So let me get this straight. The democrats run trillion dollar deficits every year and cannot so much as pass a budget which is their Contitutional duty. Then when Obama offers a budget it is so insane that not one member of his party votes for it and the GOP are the insane ones?


Got it.


My only question where is the line between insanity, stupidity, and wickedness? The DNC lies between all three I think.

Originally posted by joe beyser
The evidence is easy to come by. I couldn't say for sure about the moon landing stuff, but the birth certificate was fake. Look into it for yourself. There is other evidence as well if you are interested in it. There is a lot of garbage out there with the moon landing stuff, and the only reason I am not sure on that one is because of the number of photos urse you could just be trying a character attack. I give you benefit of the doubt. Look it up.

I don't know what your sources are, but I can imagine. Here's mine:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp

I have a lot of respect for the snopes.com website, although they don't always get it 100% correct they are reliable and unbiased in my view. I can't say the same for a lot of the Birther stuff I've looked at, it's not just biased, it's looney-tunes fanatical ravings.

Originally posted by Kewpie
I don't know what your sources are, but I can imagine. Here's mine:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp

I have a lot of respect for the snopes.com website, although they don't always get it 100% correct they are reliable and unbiased in my view. I can't say the same for a lot of the Birther stuff I've looked at, it's not just biased, it's looney-tunes fanatical ravings.

Birthers? How many people here are "birthers"?

On the left you have people think that the government is responsible for 9/11. So what? Does that make you call democrats like Obama appointed Van Jones fanatics? Nope.

I'm tired of this stupidity. Of course, what is the alternative? No one wants to talk about governing the nation, especially when they can't even pass a budget because they are too ashamed.

Originally posted by Kewpie
I don't know what your sources are, but I can imagine. Here's mine:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp

I have a lot of respect for the snopes.com website, although they don't always get it 100% correct they are reliable and unbiased in my view. I can't say the same for a lot of the Birther stuff I've looked at, it's not just biased, it's looney-tunes fanatical ravings.

Hang on. I'm looking at it.

Originally posted by Kewpie
I don't know what your sources are, but I can imagine. Here's mine:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp

I have a lot of respect for the snopes.com website, although they don't always get it 100% correct they are reliable and unbiased in my view. I can't say the same for a lot of the Birther stuff I've looked at, it's not just biased, it's looney-tunes fanatical ravings.

YouTube&feature=related

I watched the youtube videos of the "expert" on the site you posted. He makes a lot of sense to me. There are others out there that also make sense to me. The evidence your guy gives that that debunks the forgery doesn't cover all the reasons that it may be a forgery. I do believe what he says about the things he covers though. Even he admits his evidence does not prove Obama was born in Hawaii. The link I provided above is very compelling in that the kenyans say he was born there. If so then the birth certificate is fake. Michelle Obama said Kenya is his home country. I think Obama may have as well. At any rate if you don't want to believe the Obamas I cant blame you one bit. The link I provided is pretty compelling though.

Originally posted by whodey
Birthers? How many people here are "birthers"?

On the left you have people think that the government is responsible for 9/11. So what? Does that make you call democrats like Obama appointed Van Jones fanatics? Nope.

I'm tired of this stupidity. Of course, what is the alternative? No one wants to talk about governing the nation, especially when they can't even pass a budget because they are too ashamed.

I don't think many Republicans on RHP would care to challenge his citizenship as it would force them to question why their party has not done or said anything about it. It diminishes the left right paradigm so deeply ingrained into them. What??? the Republicans and Democrats may be working for the same people? Looks like it to me, but it isn't the American people they work for.

Originally posted by Kewpie
Seems to this foreigner that all the irrational posters attack Obama. Does this mean the Republicans have always got everything right? Is there a Democrat equivalent for the Tea Party?

There are left wingers who believe that the government blew up the WTC and made it look like a terror attack, fooling all the world's media including the left media. They aren't Democrats usually, because they believe that the Democrats' are part of the conspiracy, but they are left wingers except where you get the weird hybrids of extreme left and right positions.

Someone else in the thread suggested the Occupy Wall Street as an equivalent. I have two problems with the comparison, and a qualification for each. One is that many, maybe most, of the OWSers are not Democrats and will probably not be voting for Obama - if they vote at all. On the other hand, the Tea Party may also not be married to the GOP and we'll see if they vote third party in any significant numbers with Romney as nominee. The second is that the Tea Party is much more mainstream, more politically pragmatic, with election strategies and probably a better grip on what it takes to make a difference. OWS is mostly first and second college students having been raised in suburban comfort, feeling guilty about their privilege, and looking for easy answers to tough questions. As such, they are not as sustainable as a movement with a lot of influence.

I do think the majority in both movements is not extreme, but the more thoughtful and responsible elements have probably become marginalized in the process. There were more Democrats in the Tea Party early on, but while the antics during town hall meetings in the summer of 2010 led to political gains, I think it cost the Tea Party any capital it might have had as a broad-based movement.

You can blame OWS decline on extremists, including a few numbheads willing to provoke violence in demonstrations, but ultimately I think the emphasis on trying to maintain camp sites as some sort of de facto program for the homeless cost them the points they had earned tapping into the general anger at Wall Street for the collapse. A movement like that needs older leadership with some political seasoning, but it doesn't sit well with the anarchist philosphy which governs the movement. They lost their focus. But they did bring Wall Street and its contribution to the economic crash into focus for awhile, and Obama might actually owe them for that.

Originally posted by Kewpie
Seems to this foreigner that all the irrational posters attack Obama. Does this mean the Republicans have always got everything right? Is there a Democrat equivalent for the Tea Party?

The side you favor, will always seem a bit more reasonable and rational.

Consider a few things out of the recent American past. Jim Jones, evangelist and leftist extremist, friend of Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale, murdered his entire flock in Gayana. Jerry Falwell made unflattering remarks about our precious teletubbies.

You judge the extremism. Or find anything on the so called right wing that amounts to Jones, or John Africa and MOVE, or Louis Farakan and All Sharpton. Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and George Wallace all ran serious campaigns for the Democratic nomination for the Presidency.

As to the TEA party, they've found more in common with the Republican party rhetoric and so have challenge incumbent Republicans that failed to meet their rhetoric and campaign promises. During the organization phase, the TEA party talked a lot about appealing to Democrat elected officials that better suited their principles than did Republicans. When the TEA party find such candidates it will support them, bank on it.

Originally posted by Kunsoo
There are left wingers who believe that the government blew up the WTC and made it look like a terror attack, fooling all the world's media including the left media. They aren't Democrats usually, because they believe that the Democrats' are part of the conspiracy, but they are left wingers except where you get the weird hybrids of extreme left and right pos ...[text shortened]... on to the economic crash into focus for awhile, and Obama might actually owe them for that.

A lot of truth in you assessment. The TEA party isn't married to either major party, but to its principles. They will support and vote for candidates regardless of party which are in line with their principles.

These are most likely Republicans at this time. The TEA party grew from what was known for most of the nineties as "the Patriot Movement" which for more than a decade was nearly totally ineffective and splintered. It began to coalesce after 2004 election of GW Bush, and the loss of Congress. There were plenty of ideas on how to proceed, but those supporting the TEA party idea moved forward positively and attracted many stragglers who had been in "the Patriot Movement" but who tired of its fragmentation and ineffectiveness.

The main body laments that mainstream republicanism differs so little from democrats that it isn't worth fighting over the difference. This appeals to many libertarians who also see their party as ineffective due to fragmented ideals, and internal dogfights.

In any case, I believe that any serious challenge to left wing politics in the US will come via the TEA party, which may eventually totally replace the Republican party or take it over without changing the name.

Originally posted by normbenign
A lot of truth in you assessment. The TEA party isn't married to either major party, but to its principles. They will support and vote for candidates regardless of party which are in line with their principles.

These are most likely Republicans at this time. The TEA party grew from what was known for most of the nineties as "the Patriot Movement" wh eventually totally replace the Republican party or take it over without changing the name.

Surveys of Tea Party members establish that a large majority are long time Republican voters who think GWB did a great job.

EDIT: In April 2010, GWB had a 27% favorable rating among all adults, but 57% of Tea Partiers gave him a "favorable" and only 27% an "unfavorable".http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-timescbs-news-poll-national-survey-of-tea-party-supporters

p. 21

54% consider themselves Republican and only 5% Democrats.
p. 40


In prior elections 66% either always or usually voted Republican while 5% always or usually voted Democratic.

p. 35

Originally posted by joe beyser
I don't think many Republicans on RHP would care to challenge his citizenship as it would force them to question why their party has not done or said anything about it. It diminishes the left right paradigm so deeply ingrained into them. What??? the Republicans and Democrats may be working for the same people? Looks like it to me, but it isn't the American people they work for.

Actually I see some hope for those on the right. People like you and myself have shaken the GOP mind control. However, those on the left don't seem to get it. All they do is complain that government is controled by corporate America, then they seek to empower government even more. Now they jump up and down like school girls at a football game after Obama forces us all to buy corporate health insurance.

At least we are able to think for ourselves.

Originally posted by whodey
Actually I see some hope for those on the right. People like you [joe beyser] and myself have shaken the GOP mind control.

One of the ways that joe beyser may perhaps be said to have "shaken the GOP mind control" is in his assertions that President Obama was not born in the U.S. and is in fact a "foreigner" [as joe beyser has put it on this forum]. This raises a couple of questions: (i) Do you agree with joe beyser and are you therefore a birther too? And (ii) do you really think his conspiracy theories about a massive cover up involving both Democrats and Republicans, about Obama being born in Kenya, about faked birth certificates etc. etc. ...do you really think this kind of thinking represents "hope for those on the right" as you seem to be claiming.

Originally posted by FMF
One of the ways that joe beyser may perhaps be said to have "shaken the GOP mind control" is in his assertions that President Obama was not born in the U.S. and is in fact a "foreigner" [as joe beyser has put it on this forum]. This raises a couple of questions: (i) Do you agree with joe beyser and are you therefore a birther too? And (ii) do you really think hi ...[text shortened]... this kind of thinking represents "hope for those on the right" as you seem to be claiming.

When I say we are able to think for ourselves, I mean being able to free ourselves from the party think tank. Most seem convinced that one party winning over another is the choice between life and death, even though they don't seem to much care for the party they defend.

If I'm right, Romney should lose. Conservatives don't much like Romney and have been thrown to the curb. So be it, win on your own Mitt. However, the Obamabots will stay loyal to the bitter end. It matters little what he does or says.

Originally posted by whodey
When I say we are able to think for ourselves, I mean being able to free ourselves from the party think tank.

In the post you were responding to - and throughout this thread - joe beyser has been questioning the fact that President Obama is a U.S. citizen and/or the fact that he was born in the U.S. and has suggested that the Republicans are complicit in a cover up. So is this evidence that joe beyser has "shaken the GOP mind control" as you suggest? You may claim that your own thinking offers "hope for those on the right" if you want to. But you're not claiming that joe beyser's birther posts represent "hope for those on the right" without having actually read them, are you?

Originally posted by whodey
When I say we are able to think for ourselves, I mean being able to free ourselves from the party think tank. Most seem convinced that one party winning over another is the choice between life and death, even though they don't seem to much care for the party they defend.

If I'm right, Romney should lose. Conservatives don't much like Romney and have been ...[text shortened]... er, the Obamabots will stay loyal to the bitter end. It matters little what he does or says.

Your use of the word "Obamabot" as a pejorative convinces me that you are deficient in the ability to reason impartially.