Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberRemoved
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    08 Feb '17 18:101 edit
    Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz CNN Debate The future of Obama Care.


    During CNN's Ted Cruz-Bernie Sanders debate on Tuesday, the business owner, who operates several hair salons in Texas, asked Sanders how she can comply with Obamacare without passing on costs to customers or lowering her employees’ wages. She said she has just under 50 employees.
    “Let me give you an answer you will not be happy with,” Sanders replied. “I think that businesses that employ 50 people or more… I’m sorry, I think that in America today, everybody should have health care. And if you have more than 50 people, you know what, I’m afraid to tell you, I think you will have to provide health insurance.”

    The business owner quickly shot back:

    “So my question is how do I do that without raising my prices to my customers or lowing the wages to my employees?”

    Sanders went on to argue that it's “unfair” that there might be “somebody else in Fort Worth who is providing decent health insurance to their employees,” but they have to compete with her business that doesn't provide an employer-based health care plan.

    “I think you’ll find the profit margin in my entire industry about the same," the business owner replied.

    http://ijr.com/2017/02/797088-texas-salon-owner-tells-bernie-her-business-cant-afford-obamacare-his-response-stops-viewers-cold/
  2. Unknown Territories
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    08 Feb '17 18:20
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz CNN Debate The future of Obama Care.


    During CNN's Ted Cruz-Bernie Sanders debate on Tuesday, the business owner, who operates several hair salons in Texas, asked Sanders how she can comply with Obamacare without passing on costs to customers or lowering her employees’ wages. She said she has just under 50 employees.
    “Let ...[text shortened]... xas-salon-owner-tells-bernie-her-business-cant-afford-obamacare-his-response-stops-viewers-cold/
    This putz with three houses is just as removed from the so-called little man as any of the rest of them are.
    What was his last job before becoming a distinguished senator?
    When was the last time he had to choose between getting better by seeking medical attention or paying rent?
  3. Joined
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    08 Feb '17 18:221 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz CNN Debate The future of Obama Care.


    During CNN's Ted Cruz-Bernie Sanders debate on Tuesday, the business owner, who operates several hair salons in Texas, asked Sanders how she can comply with Obamacare without passing on costs to customers or lowering her employees’ wages. She said she has just under 50 employees.
    “Let ...[text shortened]... xas-salon-owner-tells-bernie-her-business-cant-afford-obamacare-his-response-stops-viewers-cold/
    Unemployment is intimately related to the ACA.

    It simply should not be.

    I personally think that the ACA was structured as it is so that less Americans would be in the work force in order to enlarge the DIm welfare base.

    Sanders is just a sell out to the Clintons and a tool of the DNC. All he has to offer is demagoguery, nothing of any substance which is why he had no answer.

    I loved it when someone asked him about the greatness of socialism when looking at the poverty in Cuba. He simply chose not to answer.
  4. Standard membervivify
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    08 Feb '17 18:39
    Originally posted by whodey
    Unemployment is intimately related to the ACA.

    It simply should not be.

    I personally think that the ACA was structured as it is so that less Americans would be in the work force in order to enlarge the DIm welfare base.

    Sanders is just a sell out to the Clintons and a tool of the DNC. All he has to offer is demagoguery, nothing of any substance whic ...[text shortened]... the greatness of socialism when looking at the poverty in Cuba. He simply chose not to answer.
    Had Cuba been capitalist under a dictator with a legacy of human rights abuses, would things be any better?

    Clearly, Bernie didn't want to answer a stupid question.
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    08 Feb '17 18:48
    Originally posted by vivify
    Had Cuba been capitalist under a dictator with a legacy of human rights abuses, would things be any better?

    Clearly, Bernie didn't want to answer a stupid question.
    Or he had no answer
  6. Standard membervivify
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    08 Feb '17 18:55
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Or he had no answer
    How do you answer a stupid question?
  7. Joined
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    08 Feb '17 19:01
    Originally posted by vivify
    Had Cuba been capitalist under a dictator with a legacy of human rights abuses, would things be any better?

    Clearly, Bernie didn't want to answer a stupid question.
    I dunno, that is speculative, but I am fairly certain people would not be so desperate as to get on a floating tire and hope they reach the US.
  8. Germany
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    08 Feb '17 19:05
    A complex problem. I suggest the following 1-step program to avert such issues.

    1. Implement universal health care.
  9. Standard membervivify
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    08 Feb '17 19:072 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    I dunno, that is speculative, but I am fairly certain people would not be so desperate as to get on a floating tire and hope they reach the US.
    So if the rampant human rights abuses were from capitalists, the people wouldn't have left? Gotcha.
  10. Subscriberkmax87
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    08 Feb '17 20:07
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    ....When was the last time he had to choose between getting better by seeking medical attention or paying rent?
    And on this very point anyone not living in America just shakes their head and says how is it than in Europe, Britain, Canada and Australia, which all qualify as successful Western democracies, our citizens are not forced with this choice, yet in the land of the free and the home of the brave you've allowed capital before people to dictate who gets health care? Do you realize just how insane that sounds?
  11. Joined
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    08 Feb '17 20:09
    Originally posted by vivify
    So if the rampant human rights abuses were from capitalists, the people wouldn't have left? Gotcha.
    How many people jump on inner tubes to go to Cuba?
  12. Joined
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    08 Feb '17 20:111 edit
    Originally posted by kmax87
    And on this very point anyone not living in America just shakes their head and says how is it than in Europe, Britain, Canada and Australia, which all qualify as successful Western democracies, our citizens are not forced with this choice, yet in the land of the free and the home of the brave you've allowed capital before people to dictate who gets health care? Do you realize just how insane that sounds?
    Here is a thought, instead of the US doing all the dirty work for Europe militarily, like kicking out Gaddafi so Europe could have their oil, perhaps the US could afford adequate health care.

    Oh, I forgot, Europe is entitled to it.
  13. Subscriberkmax87
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    08 Feb '17 20:13
    Originally posted by whodey
    How many people jump on inner tubes to go to Cuba?
    Most people put off dealing with health issues until it's too late.
  14. Standard membersh76
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    08 Feb '17 20:161 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz CNN Debate The future of Obama Care.


    During CNN's Ted Cruz-Bernie Sanders debate on Tuesday, the business owner, who operates several hair salons in Texas, asked Sanders how she can comply with Obamacare without passing on costs to customers or lowering her employees’ wages. She said she has just under 50 employees.
    “Let ...[text shortened]... xas-salon-owner-tells-bernie-her-business-cant-afford-obamacare-his-response-stops-viewers-cold/
    I thought it was an excellent debate. Cruz may have far right political views, but he's an intelligent guy. Sanders is also one of the few truly genuine politicians on the national stage.

    I thought there were holes on both senators' arguments and I don't think either "won" the debate. Cruz hammered home the idea of opening more competition in health insurance markets and, while Sanders was (I guess) supposed to be there to defend the ACA, he was really there to argue for a single payer system (or at least a robust public option).

    Cruz had a weak point when asked about whether healthcare is a right. Plainly, he thinks the answer is "no" and I tend to agree with him. (I don't think there can be a human right to make someone else give you something.) But he didn't have the guts to say it and so he weasel-worded "access to healthcare" as a right and let Sanders slam him with the $5m house analogy.

    Sanders' weakest point was when the salon owner said she has 49 employees but would hire 20 more if 50 weren't the ACA threshold and Sanders had no answer for her other than "if you have 50 employees, you should provide them healthcare." He should have used it as a chance to push the single-payer or public option he pushed the rest of the night.

    I think Sanders started out playing it as though he were there to defend the ACA and then, 20 minutes in, lost patience and said "Screw this. I know the ACA sucks, so let's move to Medicare for all or single payer, but the only thing I'll say for the ACA is that it's better than pre-ACA." He kind of forgot what he was there for, if, in fact, he was there to defend the ACA.

    They even found some common ground on weakening drug import restrictions and allowing the federal government to negotiate Medicare rates.

    All in all, I truly enjoyed the debate and I hope they do this sort of thing more often. Gun control, taxation, social security, terrorism, immigration, unemployment. Do one for each of them and vary the debaters. What a great way to spark national dialogues.

    It's a shame that we don't have a President who's intellectually capable of engaging in this sort of discussion, though.
  15. Joined
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    08 Feb '17 20:203 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    I thought it was an excellent debate. Cruz may have far right political views, but he's an intelligent guy. Sanders is also one of the few truly genuine politicians on the national stage.

    I thought there were holes on both senators' arguments and I don't think either "won" the debate. Cruz hammered home the idea of opening more competition in health insuran ...[text shortened]... 't have a President who's intellectually capable of engaging in this sort of discussion, though.
    I think all Trump wants to do is get rid of the mandate for citizens as well as employers.

    He cares nothing about the mounting debt.

    The left is in the dubious position of trying to defend the ACA because they just shoved it down our throats with the ink not even being dry, but, at the same time, not admitting it was just one painful step to force universal coverage. In short, they had to destroy health care in order for people to want something new.

    At leas they have a few more years before throwing it under the bus and ultimately blaming the GOP for it in some way or another.
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