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Debates Forum

  1. 04 Feb '15 21:10
    British Parliament has just voted in favour of allowing three sets of chromosomal parents in the formation of a new embryo in order to overcome inherited diseases. I think this is great, but it has already pissed off the catholic church (21st century Leonardo de Vinci syndrome).
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    04 Feb '15 21:15
    How is this ( the third parent) accomplished?
  3. Subscriber Ponderable
    chemist
    05 Feb '15 09:24
    Originally posted by vivify
    How is this ( the third parent) accomplished?
    You take the chromosoms of two parents and the ess (without the nucleus) of a third. Thus the DNA of the baby is from the donors of the two nuclei with the chromosomes while the Mitochodria are from the third.
  4. 05 Feb '15 10:37
    Originally posted by OdBod
    I think this is great, but it has already pissed off the catholic church (21st century Leonardo de Vinci syndrome).
    Well obviously when you believe in inherited sin, messing with inheritance has dangerous consequences. There is a potential to double the sin carried by the child, or have a completely sinless child. I suspect both alternatives would upset rather a lot of religious people.
  5. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    05 Feb '15 12:57
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Well obviously when you believe in inherited sin, messing with inheritance has dangerous consequences. There is a potential to double the sin carried by the child, or have a completely sinless child. I suspect both alternatives would upset rather a lot of religious people.
    Next step is cloning the sinless children.

    Mind blown.
  6. 05 Feb '15 23:10
    If I understand this correctly, this is not just a one time transplant, the third parent mitochondria will continue forward into subsequent generations.This seriously challenges what constitutes an individual, and I believe will deal a fatal blow to many religious beliefs!
  7. 06 Feb '15 02:14
    Originally posted by OdBod
    If I understand this correctly, this is not just a one time transplant, the third parent mitochondria will continue forward into subsequent generations.This seriously challenges what constitutes an individual, and I believe will deal a fatal blow to many religious beliefs!
    If you think that, you understand neither religion nor genetics.
  8. 06 Feb '15 10:47
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    If you think that, you understand neither religion nor genetics.
    I love fly fishing.
  9. Subscriber Ponderable
    chemist
    06 Feb '15 12:52
    Originally posted by OdBod
    If I understand this correctly, this is not just a one time transplant, the third parent mitochondria will continue forward into subsequent generations.This seriously challenges what constitutes an individual, and I believe will deal a fatal blow to many religious beliefs!
    To be clear. The normal way to start a new human baby is that an egg and a sperm merge. The sperm brings in the fatherly half of chromosomes, the egg brings in the motherly half puls the mitochondria.

    The mitochondria have a genetic code of their own. The strictly motherly ancestry can be followed by the analysis of Mitochondria. But there are illnesses which are connected to mitochondria malfunction. The three parent model is to enable women with those illnesses to have babies without that illness.

    Now for the definition of individual. All other aspects aside normally we look at a person, see a human body and have meaningful interaction. We are normally not interested where the mitochondria in the cells of another person come from. As we are normally not interested in the colon bacteria of that person, even though they wouldn't be able to live without that bacteria.

    Normally we are even not interested from whose genetic heritage a special bodily feature fo our fellow human stems from. Even though sometimes we say: 2Just thesame eyes like the father".

    So for our definition of individuality the three parent model is just without any meaning. Religion normally is interested in the sould of a person and we have yet to find a definition for "soul". (There are several around, with varying degree of consenus about them)
  10. 06 Feb '15 16:54
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    To be clear. The normal way to start a new human baby is that an egg and a sperm merge. The sperm brings in the fatherly half of chromosomes, the egg brings in the motherly half puls the mitochondria.

    The mitochondria have a genetic code of their own. The strictly motherly ancestry can be followed by the analysis of Mitochondria. But there are illnesse ...[text shortened]... a definition for "soul". (There are several around, with varying degree of consenus about them)
    As you quite rightly say,mitochondria have there own genetic material. DNA can mutate through a number of mechanisms, deletion or addition for example. Given that the mitochondria operate inside the cell there is a possibility that some genetic material may mix during the replication process . Usually a mutation results in an unviable cell, but not always. I believe certain bacteria have been known to share genetic material and gain advantage.
  11. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    09 Feb '15 08:06
    Originally posted by OdBod
    British Parliament has just voted in favour of allowing three sets of chromosomal parents in the formation of a new embryo in order to overcome inherited diseases. I think this is great, but it has already pissed off the catholic church (21st century Leonardo de Vinci syndrome).
    An interesting idea, but I'm not convinced this is the answer to the problem of inherited diseases, it may be a good idea for a few select cases, but I'm still unsure at this point.
  12. 09 Feb '15 22:43
    Originally posted by bill718
    An interesting idea, but I'm not convinced this is the answer to the problem of inherited diseases, it may be a good idea for a few select cases, but I'm still unsure at this point.
    ...the intent is for getting rid of those few select cases. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing better, nothing worse.
  13. 09 Feb '15 22:55
    Originally posted by OdBod
    British Parliament has just voted in favour of allowing three sets of chromosomal parents in the formation of a new embryo in order to overcome inherited diseases. I think this is great, but it has already pissed off the catholic church (21st century Leonardo de Vinci syndrome).
    Is this the first ever scientific threesome??????
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Feb '15 00:49
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    To be clear. The normal way to start a new human baby is that an egg and a sperm merge. The sperm brings in the fatherly half of chromosomes, the egg brings in the motherly half puls the mitochondria.

    The mitochondria have a genetic code of their own. The strictly motherly ancestry can be followed by the analysis of Mitochondria. But there are illnesse ...[text shortened]... a definition for "soul". (There are several around, with varying degree of consenus about them)
    Now that is an interesting aside. How do souls interact with genetic material? At what point does a soul enter a person, by what means, and in what way is the genetic inheritance relevant to this process or relevant to the resulting soul? Is there any aspect of the soul arising through genetic manipulation that might invite religious concerns?

    We should be told. We need to know.
  15. 10 Feb '15 10:43
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Now that is an interesting aside. How do souls interact with genetic material?
    And are souls really repelled by the genes for red hair?