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Debates Forum

  1. 05 Nov '12 13:43
    What countries did the USA invade that the British Empire invaded? What is your criteria for an invasion?

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/11/british-have-invaded-90-percent-countries-earth/58680/
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Nov '12 14:07
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    What countries did the USA invade that the British Empire invaded? What is your criteria for an invasion?

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/11/british-have-invaded-90-percent-countries-earth/58680/
    Department of Defense records show that the U.S. has military personnel of some kind in a whopping 153 countries around the world. That's a pretty heft majority of the 190 countries that the U.S. maintains diplomatic relations with. Though that presence is small in some of those countries -- there's only one troop in Gabon -- it's a presence.

    So the British have invaded 90 percent of the world's country, and we've invaded 80 percent.


    Ha, that's funny. One soldier is now passing for an invasion.

    There was a uniformed military person on my flight to Charlotte last month, I'll bet North Carolina didn't know they were being invaded.
  3. 05 Nov '12 14:43
    Originally posted by sh76
    [quote]Department of Defense records show that the U.S. has military personnel of some kind in a whopping 153 countries around the world. That's a pretty heft majority of the 190 countries that the U.S. maintains diplomatic relations with. Though that presence is small in some of those countries -- there's only one troop in Gabon -- it's a presence.

    So the B ...[text shortened]... ht to Charlotte last month, I'll bet North Carolina didn't know they were being invaded.
    What is your criteria for an invasion?

    I asked this question for that very reason.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Nov '12 15:12
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    What is your criteria for an invasion?

    I asked this question for that very reason.
    My major criterion for an invasion would be a significant attempt to change the political administration of a significant component of the territory invaded by the use of military force; or at least to coerce them by force to administer such territory in a manner consistent with your instructions. (By "significant" I don't mean a majority; I mean as opposed to a house or two).

    Wikipedia's definition is close enough:

    An invasion is a military offensive in which large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively enter territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof.


    What we did in Iraq. That was an invasion. Establishing and holding military bases is not in itself an invasion if we are not interfering with the sovereign authority by force.
  5. 05 Nov '12 15:35
    Originally posted by sh76
    My major criterion for an invasion would be a significant attempt to change the political administration of a significant component of the territory invaded by the use of military force; or at least to coerce them by force to administer such territory in a manner consistent with your instructions. (By "significant" I don't mean a majority; I mean as opposed to ...[text shortened]... s not in itself an invasion if we are not interfering with the sovereign authority by force.
    Okay. Your criteria includes military force. I would be interested to see how many countries fit into that group.

    Can an empire can be expanded without military force? The USA didn't send the military into Iran when Kermit Roosevelt and others manipulated a coop and installed the Shah into power in 1953. Could the CIA operatives involved be considered military or is this a loophole of some sort?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Nov '12 15:37
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Okay. Your criteria includes military force. I would be interested to see how many countries fit into that group.

    Can an empire can be expanded without military force? The USA didn't send the military into Iran when Kermit Roosevelt and others manipulated a coop and installed the Shah into power in 1953. Could the CIA operatives involved be considered military or is this a loophole of some sort?
    If your proxies use military force, that could also be considered using military force.
  7. 05 Nov '12 15:45
    Originally posted by sh76
    If your proxies use military force, that could also be considered using military force.
    Are you saying Operation Ajax is an invasion by the USA?
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Nov '12 15:48
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Are you saying Operation Ajax is an invasion by the USA?
    I can't say for sure, but I'd lean towards no. Supporting one side in a civil disagreement does not inherently make that side your proxy.
  9. 05 Nov '12 17:45
    Originally posted by sh76
    I can't say for sure, but I'd lean towards no. Supporting one side in a civil disagreement does not inherently make that side your proxy.
    The CIA installed a puppet dictator. It was more than a civil disagreement.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/16/world/secrets-history-cia-iran-special-report-plot-convulsed-iran-53-79.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm