From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6514567.stm
...President George W Bush has condemned Iran's "inexcusable behaviour" after its capture of 15 Royal Navy personnel...
Am I the only person in the whole wide world who finds this nausiatingly hypcrite?
Even if Iran detained the prisoners in an open encampment, tortured them for 5 years, neglected to give them any form of council and then stood them on a show-room trial and forced them to admit guilt... the US should keep it's trap shut on this matter.
Man, sometimes the world just seems so topsy turvy it makes me wanna spew.
I can't stand Bush Shav but it does appear the sailors were taken outside Iranian waters, they know it and refuse to give them back.. that's an act of international piracy. Bush is a strong ally of his mate from #10 so of course he's going to speak.
I hope the Iranians see sense give them back. That is the right and sensible thing to do .. end of story no loss of face for either side and it will shut Bush up.
If they don't my guess is Britain will go and get them regardless of opinion in this thread.. right or wrong.. Would you put money on the SAS not going in if this goes on another week or two.. I wouldn't. And I'd bet they don't stuff it up like the yanks did..
Originally posted by Tirau DanOh, don't get me wrong on this, I don't agree with the showing of prisoners on TV one bit, but the critisism is a little strong coming from the commander in chief of Guatanamo bay...
I can't stand Bush Shav but it does appear the sailors were taken outside Iranian waters, they know it and refuse to give them back.. that's an act of international piracy. Bush is a strong ally of his mate from #10 so of course he's going to speak.
I hope the Iranians see sense give them back. That is the right and sensible thing to do .. end of story ...[text shortened]... another week or two.. I wouldn't. And I'd bet they don't stuff it up like the yanks did..
That is my point.
Originally posted by shavixmirAbsolutely. but he's just scoring points with Britain hoping they'll hang on in there a bit longer in Afghanistan and Iraq. Britain just wants out.
Oh, don't get me wrong on this, I don't agree with the showing of prisoners on TV one bit, but the critisism is a little strong coming from the commander in chief of Guatanamo bay...
That is my point.
Here I hope all the side (though very important) issues are left aside.
Iran has 15 sailors on shaky ground and could only do good by handing them back.. holding is wrong and every minute they hold them makes it worse.
Originally posted by shavixmir...especially as a British detainee has just been released!
Oh, don't get me wrong on this, I don't agree with the showing of prisoners on TV one bit, but the critisism is a little strong coming from the commander in chief of Guatanamo bay...
That is my point.
What I would like to see is Iran returning the sailors, so they
demonstrate they do NOT want war, and then an international
panel of experts to gather & conclude with scientific data if the ship
was trespassing Iranian waters or not.
If they were not, then Iran should face the shame and perhaps
measures from the international community as a whole. If they were
right, their moral strength becomes enormous and Britain should
face the shame and, why not, measures from the international
community.
I'm quite pleased that the focus has been on diplomacy, and I can understand the desire of the Revolutionary Guards to exploit it to keep out the West - but whatever the motives of the West, the fact is that backing down on this and offering an apology could potentially be seen as ceding the sovereign claims of Iraq to those waters, which could store up trouble Iranian-Iraqi relations (which are excellent at the moment, thank goodness) in the long-term when the occupying powers depart.
What interests me in all this is just who has been calling the shots all along, and who the rival parties within Iran are - clearly the President wants to use it to inflame the situation and the Grand Council is apparently trying to rein him in, but how are groups like the bazaari reacting?
Originally posted by Tirau DanI really don't think this will happen. Just think about the logistics of it - getting 15 people out of a hostile country when you have no real clue where they are. Even if they are found there are going to be fatalities - the SAS aren't supermen. Hatred towards the Brits would be fuelled nationwide and ensure the current intransigent, anti-west regime remains in power for longer.
If they don't my guess is Britain will go and get them regardless of opinion in this thread.. right or wrong.. Would you put money on the SAS not going in if this goes on another week or two.. I wouldn't. And I'd bet they don't stuff it up like the yanks did..
I think this will go on for a few days yet. I think the solution to getting them back would be for the Brits to judge when Iran looks like flinching, then back down and take the line of 'those waters have very sketchy lines of separation' and promise to ensure the Navy stay a good distance away (1.7 miles is nothing in nautical terms anyway! Iran could easily see this proximity as provocative). The Iranians will spin this as their victory of course while the Brits claim no confession of guilt was made.
I don't see how increasing the pressure on a fundamentalist regime will achieve anything except increasing the hardness of their stance, especially when it's obvious that countries that might have influence are not bending over backwards to help. Acting unilaterally in an increasingly integrated world is and should remain a tactic of the past.
I don't think getting a group of 'experts' together to read the Royal Navy's data would put an end to the discussion of where the sailors were; the Iranians would still claim otherwise.
Exactly - the Indian ship's GPS data could easily be falsified - there's no definitive, independent source who can say exactly where the ship was when it was boarded.
Let's face it, if the US government can demolish the WTC then a bit of dodgy GPS data should be a breeze for us Brits!😉
Originally posted by Tirau DanStuff like the Yanks did? I don't get it.
I can't stand Bush Shav but it does appear the sailors were taken outside Iranian waters, they know it and refuse to give them back.. that's an act of international piracy. Bush is a strong ally of his mate from #10 so of course he's going to speak.
I hope the Iranians see sense give them back. That is the right and sensible thing to do .. end of story ...[text shortened]... another week or two.. I wouldn't. And I'd bet they don't stuff it up like the yanks did..