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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Oct '11 05:05
    What did they do wrong to not get re-elected?
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    11 Oct '11 05:42
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What did they do wrong to not get re-elected?
    Bush Sr would have won if Ross Perot had dropped out.
  3. 11 Oct '11 11:14
    Originally posted by FMF
    Bush Sr would have won if Ross Perot had dropped out.
    My parents loved Ross Perot.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Oct '11 11:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Bush Sr would have won if Ross Perot had dropped out.
    Jury's out on that one.

    In any case, both lost for the same reason American Presidential incumbents tend to lose (when they do): a weak economy.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    11 Oct '11 11:50
    Originally posted by sh76
    Jury's out on that one.

    In any case, both lost for the same reason American Presidential incumbents tend to lose (when they do): a weak economy.
    If Perot had been of a mind to accept the VP slot on the major party ticket - I am not claiming he would have - do you reckon he would have thrown his hat in with Clinton or Bush Sr ?
  6. 11 Oct '11 12:19
    Originally posted by FMF
    If Perot had been of a mind to accept the VP slot on the major party ticket - I am not claiming he would have - do you reckon he would have thrown his hat in with Clinton or Bush Sr ?
    I think a big part of Perot's appeal is that he had his own belief on how the world should operate and he would rather lose doing it his way then be a VP.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    11 Oct '11 12:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by quackquack
    I think a big part of Perot's appeal is that he had his own belief on how the world should operate and he would rather lose doing it his way then be a VP.
    Well of course. As I said, I wasn't claiming he'd have taken the slot. But - yes it's a hypothetical - what would have been the dynamic and electoral maths in terms of ideas>ticket>base-loyal>base-disaffected... IF he had picked a side?
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Oct '11 13:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    If Perot had been of a mind to accept the VP slot on the major party ticket - I am not claiming he would have - do you reckon he would have thrown his hat in with Clinton or Bush Sr ?
    I guess perhaps Bush, but it's always dangerous to assume that if not for candidate X, Y% of his voters would have voted for Candidate Z. People who vote for third party candidates are usually not enthralled with either candidate and it's not quite predictable whether or for whom they would have voted were it not for the 3rd party candidate.

    A detailed analysis of voting demographics revealed that Perot's support drew heavily from across the political spectrum, with 20% of his votes coming from self-described liberals, 27% from self-described conservatives, and 53% coming from self-described moderates.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot#1992_presidential_candidacy

    7% of the Perot vote would have have been enough to swing the election to Bush.

    Even the one seemingly clear example in history of the "spoiler" (Nader in 2000) is a little murky when you really crunch the numbers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_nader#The_.22spoiler.22_controversy

    And even to the extent that Nader was the "spoiler" in 2000, it was only because of the fluke of how exceptionally close Florida was in 2000.
  9. 12 Oct '11 13:56
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What did they do wrong to not get re-elected?
    It's the economy, stupid!