George has once again pulled the wool over the publics eye by saying SS is in the crapper and will be broke soon. His "solution" is to give you, those under 29, the ability to invest your money yourself. He says that since people of that age have grown up with the stock market, as if the rest of didn't, they will know what to invest in. But just in case they don't, the government will limit the stocks that you can invest in. I'm no economist, but doesn't that seem to give the government a huge amount of control over the stock market? Is it all part of the plan?
1 - Invade Iraq, give huge no-bid contracts to friends companies.
2 - Spend all the government's money til there is none left and then spend more.
3 - Make people invest in friends companies.
4 - Crush the dollar on the world market, so that we have to buy American.
5 - Pump up the price of gas so your Saudi friends can make more money.
6 - Open up protected forest land so your logging and gas buddies can make more money.
Thank you all you Bush voters, you really did the country a service. Unfortunately the only ones benefiting are about .0003 percent of the population. BRAVO!!!
So I guess in 98 when Clinton, Gore and the rest of the Democratic party was saying its in the crapper, they were all lying too? Funny how when they come up with an idea, its a great idea but when Bush does its a big conspiracy.
Did it get fixed between 98 and now? Maybe I missed a meeting!
Let's go through the list shall we?
1 - Invade Iraq, give huge no-bid contracts to friends companies.
Fact: Iraq has been in charge of oil revenue since June 26th, 2004. Those same companies (I assume you mean the evil Halliburton) were getting no-bid contracts under Clinton. Why? Because they happen to be the best and one of the very few companies at what they do.
2 - Spend all the government's money til there is none left and then spend more.
Fact: The deficit is smaller now as a pct of GDP than it was under Reagan.
3 - Make people invest in friends companies.
Fact: I don't know about you, but Ashcroft's boys haven't made it to my house yet to force me to invest in one of his friends companies at gun point.
4 - Crush the dollar on the world market, so that we have to buy American.
What exactly is the mechanism by which he is doing this?
5 - Pump up the price of gas so your Saudi friends can make more money.
Fact: Gas prices rose to a peak right before the election then dropped afterwards. If he was in bed with the Saudi's it would have done exactly the opposite.
6 - Open up protected forest land so your logging and gas buddies can make more money.
Example?
So, which is it? Is Bush an idiot, or an evil plotting genius? It seems to change depending on what point one is trying to make at the time.
So it goes with the X-Files wing of the Democratic Party.
Originally posted by MavraamHave you considered the possibilty that Bush is an idiot and just does what the 'evil plotting geniuses' advising him tell him to do?
So I guess in 98 when Clinton, Gore and the rest of the Democratic party was saying its in the crapper, they were all lying too? Funny how when they come up with an idea, its a great idea but when Bush does its a big conspiracy.
Did it ...[text shortened]... time.
So it goes with the X-Files wing of the Democratic Party.
Originally posted by MavraamFact: The deficit is smaller now as a pct of GDP than it was under Reagan.
So I guess in 98 when Clinton, Gore and the rest of the Democratic party was saying its in the crapper, they were all lying too? Funny how when they come up with an idea, its a great idea but when Bush does its a big conspiracy.
Did it get fixed between 98 and now? Maybe I missed a meeting!
Let's go through the list shall we?
1 - Invade Iraq, gi ...[text shortened]... one is trying to make at the time.
So it goes with the X-Files wing of the Democratic Party.
Just on that one point: Reagan ran the largest peacetime deficit ever till that point. You might want to come up with a better baseline.
Originally posted by CliffLandinYou receive a req for your insight guy. I wish all Americans could see this.
George has once again pulled the wool over the publics eye by saying SS is in the crapper and will be broke soon. His "solution" is to give you, those under 29, the ability to invest your money yourself. He says that since people of that age have grown up with the stock market, as if the rest of didn't, they will know what to invest in. But just i ...[text shortened]... ce. Unfortunately the only ones benefiting are about .0003 percent of the population. BRAVO!!!
Originally posted by MavraamWHOA!!! You are distorting the facts! Just like the damn Republicans do!
So I guess in 98 when Clinton, Gore and the rest of the Democratic party was saying its in the crapper, they were all lying too? Funny how when they come up with an idea, its a great idea but when Bush does its a big conspiracy.
Did it get fixed between 98 and now? Maybe I missed a meeting!
Let's go through the list shall we?
1 - Invade Iraq, gi ...[text shortened]... one is trying to make at the time.
So it goes with the X-Files wing of the Democratic Party.
You LIE when you say:
>So I guess in 98 when Clinton, Gore and the rest of the Democratic party was saying its in the crapper, they were all lying too?
They NEVER said such a thing!
>Let's go through the list shall we?
Yeah, let's look at how you twist things around!
1 - Invade Iraq, give huge no-bid contracts to friends companies.
>Fact: Iraq has been in charge of oil revenue since June 26th, 2004.
LIE!!! Iraq has NEVER been in charge of oil revenue since the U.S. invaded them! The United States set up a government with the Iraqi leaders that they supported to assume control of the oil revenues!
>Those same companies (I assume you mean the evil Halliburton) were getting no-bid contracts under Clinton. Why? Because they happen to be the best and one of the very few companies at what they do.
LIE!!! Your assumption that they are the best has absolutely NO MERIT! The TRUTH is that NO OTHER companies were allowed the contracts regardless of any facts.
2 - Spend all the government's money til there is none left and then spend more.
>Fact: The deficit is smaller now as a pct of GDP than it was under Reagan.
TRIPLE LIE!!! You have to be a complete IDIOT not to know that the total gross deficit is FAR beyond anything from the Reagan administration!
3 - Make people invest in friends companies.
>Fact: I don't know about you, but Ashcroft's boys haven't made it to my house yet to force me to invest in one of his friends companies at gun point.
"Ashcroft's boys"? Has nothing to do with the charge. Try addressing Chaney's influence with his previous company, Halliburton.
4 - Crush the dollar on the world market, so that we have to buy American.
>What exactly is the mechanism by which he is doing this?
He is doing that by SPENDING MONEY THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE! Do I need to give you a lesson in economics for you to understand what DEPT is!?
5 - Pump up the price of gas so your Saudi friends can make more money.
>Fact: Gas prices rose to a peak right before the election then dropped afterwards. If he was in bed with the Saudi's it would have done exactly the opposite.
LIE!!! Bush got caught in an agreement that the price of oil would drop before the elections! So he DENIED such a thing! Then he had to make sure that the price of oil showed that.
6 - Open up protected forest land so your logging and gas buddies can make more money.
Example?
>So, which is it? Is Bush an idiot, or an evil plotting genius? It seems to change depending on what point one is trying to make at the time.
It appears to me, and many other fellow Americans, that the real idiots are people like yourself! Par none...
>So it goes with the X-Files wing of the Democratic Party.
So goes the stupid people along with their tyrant!
Originally posted by MavraamI don't at the moment have the time to refute all of your assine assertion, so for the moment I will give you an example of number 6.
6 - Open up protected forest land so your logging and gas buddies can make more money.
Example?
George W has rescinded the Roadless Rule that Clinton had instituted. The Roadless Rule state that if there was not already a road in the forest that you could not build one. Therefore you could not build drilling platforms nor could you cut timbers. I can off the top of my head give you one example since it is less than twenty miles from my house: The Roan Plateau in the Flattops area of central Colorado. Since the rescinding of the Roadless Rule there are now plans to put in over 200 wells that will yield enough natural gas for about a weeks worth of U.S. consumption. If you have never been to Colorado, the Rockies or the Flattops I can tell you that it is a beautiful area, untouched by civilization.
As for me, call me a Democrat all you want, it won't make it so. Nor am I Republican. Nor am I a Green. I don't believe in everything the Democrats do and I believe in even less that Republicans do. I do believe that the forest lands in this country are quickly disappearing and I do believe that the government we have now is doing all they can to expediate it. So now I imagine you will call me a tree hugger. Whatever. I don't really care what you call me, but when you come to drill in my backyard you had better be ready for some opposition.
Oh and by the way, who cares what the deficit was when Raygun was president. When Clinton left office and GW took over there was a record surplus.
CliffLandin, for what its worth you get a rec off me..
The problem is theres people like Mavraam who can post a load of lies and half truths like that and the majority of people won't know any better, in fact, hes probably jsut repeating what he's been told..
Same as the news channels, and thats not just fox, they can put such a slant on things that you never know the full truth or who to believe..
Non-profit news companies are needed which don't have any vested interests. Anything a large amount of money touches, it taints..
Hell, i think the whole system needs to be looked at, we are rewarded for being greedy, corporations are rewarded for production and profit, regardless of the enviromental consequences. Slowly, slowly the rivers are getting polluted and the forests chopped.
The system needs a overhaul.
I am a little older than many on the site, but still not near retirement age. Whatever you may think of Bush, his SS plans, the war in Iraq, or whatever, you would be wise to begin investing early on your own. I am hopeful that one day there will be as many threads on investing on this site as there are on religion and politics.
Originally posted by dk3nnyYou said it! It seems that if they say something enough times it becomes the truth, whether it actually is or not.
CliffLandin, for what its worth you get a rec off me..
The problem is theres people like Mavraam who can post a load of lies and half truths like that and the majority of people won't know any better, in fact, hes probably jsut repeating what he's been told..
Same as the news channels, and thats not just fox, they can put such a slant on things that ...[text shortened]... slowly the rivers are getting polluted and the forests chopped.
The system needs a overhaul.
Originally posted by MavraamThis is FACT...read it in Clintons own words:
So I guess in 98 when Clinton, Gore and the rest of the Democratic party was saying its in the crapper, they were all lying too? Funny how when they come up with an idea, its a great idea but when Bush does its a big conspiracy.
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/legacy/072798-speech-by-president-at-social-security-meeting.htm
For the record I never liked the idea, from either party.
edit.......................................................................................
this is Fiction:
1 - Invade Iraq, give huge no-bid contracts to friends companies.
2 - Spend all the government's money til there is none left and then spend more.
3 - Make people invest in friends companies.
4 - Crush the dollar on the world market, so that we have to buy American.
5 - Pump up the price of gas so your Saudi friends can make more money.
6 - Open up protected forest land so your logging and gas buddies can make more money.
Originally posted by xsOk, that's all fine, Clinton says in the hypothetical "let's say in 2030, we run out of money." Bush says SS will be broke in 2030. Can you see the difference? I have never questioned that SS is in trouble, my problem with Bush's "solution" is that the government controls in what you can invest. Dictating to people what they can invest in opens the door for all kinds of problems, much bigger problems than raising payroll tax. It opens the door for more backdoor deals, which this government seems to be very good at. It opens the door for government control of the stock market, which was a major concern of those that started SS in the first place. You may not care if the government meddles in the stock market, but it certainly bothers me and pretty much any economist in the world.
This is FACT...read it in Clintons own words:
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/legacy/072798-speech-by-president-at-social-security-meeting.htm
For the record I never liked the idea, from either party.
edit.......................................................................................
this is Fiction:
1 - Invade Iraq, give huge no-bid contr ...[text shortened]... oney.
6 - Open up protected forest land so your logging and gas buddies can make more money.
Originally posted by CliffLandinThe government has always "meddled" in Wall Street and SHOULD! Whenever government takes actions to lower unemployment and create jobs it is meddling in the stock market. Whenever gov't creates trade policies that expand production it is meddling in the stock market. Whenever gov't tries to create an economic climate that allows for a higher standard of living it is meddling in the stock market. I, for one, hope for more meddling.
Ok, that's all fine, Clinton says in the hypothetical "let's say in 2030, we run out of money." Bush says SS will be broke in 2030. Can you see the difference? I have never questioned that SS is in trouble, my problem with Bush's "solution" is that the government controls in what you can invest. Dictating to people what they can invest i ...[text shortened]... les in the stock market, but it certainly bothers me and pretty much any economist in the world.
Both parties have dipped into the SS fund. If you want to live off the governments measly ass check and eat dogfood in your later years then go ahead and put your faith in good old Uncle Sam. I prefer to invest my money on the market, bonds, etc. Just like I don't have any faith in Medicaid, welfare and all of the other big Liberal lets spend somebody elses money plans they have.