Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 08 Feb '11 03:28 / 2 edits
    I thought I might introduce the thought that Mubarak may want to stay. If he does, why couldn't he? After all, the Iranians squashed their citizens protests. The Chinese left their citezens dead in the street at Tiananmen square and both regimes are going strong with no forseeable end in sight. So why couldn't Mubarak take the same path as Iran and China? Is it that he is too dependent on the US? Is it that he does not have a strong enough grasp on the military? Or is it that more is expected out of the Egyptian government? Are we to believe that Mubarak should be a better man?
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Feb '11 03:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    I thought I might introduce the thought that Mubarak may want to stay. If he does, why couldn't he? After all, the Iranians squashed their citizens protests. The Chinese left their citezens dead in the street at Tiananmen square and both regimes are going strong with no forseeable end in sight. So why couldn't Mubarak take the same path as Iran and China ...[text shortened]... pected out of the Egyptian government? Are we to believe that Mubarak should be a better man?
    Didn't he announce he wouldn't be standing for re-election later this year?
  3. 08 Feb '11 03:37
    Originally posted by FMF
    Didn't he announce he wouldn't be standing for re-election later this year?
    Last I heard he was going to step down later this year.
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Feb '11 03:42
    Originally posted by whodey
    Last I heard he was going to step down later this year.
    This is what I just said. If he doesn't carry on as president then he won't be president anymore. If you see this the same way as I do, then what is your OP about?
  5. 08 Feb '11 03:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    This is what I just said. If he doesn't carry on as president then he won't be president anymore. If you see this the same way as I do, then what is your OP about?
    Why does he feel the need to step down? Why do the protests make him feel as though he needs to step down or why others think it should prompt him to step down? After all, no one prompted the Iranian government nor the Chinese government to step down when their citizens took to the streets. In fact, it was expected that they would crush their revolts, so why is Mubarak different?
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Feb '11 03:53
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why does he feel the need to step down? Why do the protests make him feel as though he needs to step down or why others think it should prompt him to step down? After all, no one prompted the Iranian government nor the Chinese government to step down when their citizens took to the streets. In fact, it was expected that they would crush their revolts, so why is Mubarak different?
    The army has distanced itself from him, as has the U.S., it would seem. When the Indonesian Army and the U.S. distanced themselves from Soeharto in 1998 he was gone within days. I don't quite get why you want to argue that Egypt, Iran and China are all somehow the same or that they are all one dimensional politically.
  7. 08 Feb '11 04:15
    Originally posted by FMF
    The army has distanced itself from him, as has the U.S., it would seem. When the Indonesian Army and the U.S. distanced themselves from Soeharto in 1998 he was gone within days. I don't quite get why you want to argue that Egypt, Iran and China are all somehow the same or that they are all one dimensional politically.
    I am only interested in the comparison in terms of authoritarian rule. From what you have said, it appears Mubarak makes a very poor dictator indeed.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Feb '11 04:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    I am only interested in the comparison in terms of authoritarian rule.
    Yes, as I said, you seem intent on looking at it as a one dimensional thing. China, Indonesia (under Soeharto), Egypt, Myanmar, Cuba, Iran are completely different countries with completely different political cultures. "Authoritarian rule" is a phenomenon every bit as diverse and context specific as "democratic rule". Someone who says "I am only interested in the comparison in terms of authoritarian rule" is quite clearly not really "interested" in it at all, and most likely has some parochial preconceptions or simplifications he wishes to peddle by way of vanity posts. Tell us it's not so in your case, whodey.
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    08 Feb '11 06:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why does he feel the need to step down? Why do the protests make him feel as though he needs to step down or why others think it should prompt him to step down? After all, no one prompted the Iranian government nor the Chinese government to step down when their citizens took to the streets. In fact, it was expected that they would crush their revolts, so why is Mubarak different?
    Iran is a near-theocracy because the Iranian government was overthrown in a populist revolution...
  10. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    08 Feb '11 07:28
    Let's see whether the latest wave of rallies will dislodge those crooked limpets.

    What would it take for something similar to occur in the USA? Your president's just one syllable short of being a hated dictator, you know -- but whose vested interests does he further?
  11. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    08 Feb '11 13:26
    Originally posted by whodey
    I am only interested in the comparison in terms of authoritarian rule. From what you have said, it appears Mubarak makes a very poor dictator indeed.
    I don't understand what you're getting at. What makes a good dictator (in the sense of your post)?
  12. 08 Feb '11 13:57
    Originally posted by Palynka
    I don't understand what you're getting at. What makes a good dictator (in the sense of your post)?
    Someone who can crush revolts and keep himself in power. I suppose what makes a good dictator is unchecked power with enough military backing to maintain that power.
  13. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    08 Feb '11 14:01
    Originally posted by whodey
    Someone who can crush revolts and keep himself in power. I suppose what makes a good dictator is unchecked power with enough military backing to maintain that power.
    He's been 30 years in power. You think that's little?
  14. 08 Feb '11 14:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Let's see whether the latest wave of rallies will dislodge those crooked limpets.

    What would it take for something similar to occur in the USA? Your president's just one syllable short of being a hated dictator, you know -- but whose vested interests does he further?
    Here is some interesting information.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/nearly-7-out-10-americans-say-they-re-di#

    In this article it states that 7 in 10 Americans are dissatisified with the size and scope of power of the federal government and also concerned about the moral and ethical climate in which it exists.

    The article states that only 10 years ago, these numbers did not reflect this at all. In fact, the numbers have almost reversed entirely.

    So with historic elections in 2008 kicking out the Republicans and historic elections in 2010 kicking out the Democrats, is the two party system about to encounter a Mubarak moment?
  15. 08 Feb '11 14:09
    Originally posted by Palynka
    He's been 30 years in power. You think that's little?
    Like I said, he says he will step down. Obviously this is not his choice. He is simply giving in to the pressure. Conversly, those in Iran and China could care less if 99.9% of the population wanted them gone because they would just assume kill 99.9% of the population if they had to do so.