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  1. 19 Aug '15 08:25
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcZ031DSvac

    this is from 2014 but it will never get old. It has bernie sanders in it, that's a plus. right now, i could listen to granpa talk for hours.

    one particular exchange is noteworthy:
    Senator: "Do you know how many people die in Canada because the waiting list is too long?"
    Doctor: "No, but i know that forty thousand die in america because they have no insurance".

    This is the gist of the discussion. Yes, private healthcare is preferable when you can afford it. Many don't. Universal healthcare guarantees it for everyone, and everyone is free to choose something else when and if they can afford it.
  2. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    19 Aug '15 11:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcZ031DSvac

    this is from 2014 but it will never get old. It has bernie sanders in it, that's a plus. right now, i could listen to granpa talk for hours.

    one particular exchange is noteworthy:
    Senator: "Do you know how many people die in Canada because the waiting list is too long?"
    Doctor: "No, but i know that forty ...[text shortened]... s it for everyone, and everyone is free to choose something else when and if they can afford it.
    American's don't care if forty thousand die each year due to no healthcare coverage, nor would they care if that number was sixty thousand or eighty thousand. American's worship insurance companies (and most other corporations) above God, and they are not willing to pay an extra penny in taxes to save the life of a fellow American. It's every sucker for himself in America, "I'm here to get mine, and to hell with you" is the American motto. It's no different with guns, Americans don't care that 2,000-3,000 people die each year in needless gun violence, they wouldn't care if that number was 10,000, they've convinced themselves that unrestricted access to an unlimited supply of guns is the answer to crime, and they are simply unwilling to change it. Grandpa Bernie Sanders may be right in what he says, but it's highly doubtful much will change even if he is elected President. The bottom line is, American's are comfortable in their dysfunctional system, and don't want to change it
  3. Standard member redbadger
    Suzzie says Badger
    19 Aug '15 13:39
    Scary....
  4. 19 Aug '15 14:58
    Originally posted by bill718
    American's don't care if forty thousand die each year due to no healthcare coverage, nor would they care if that number was sixty thousand or eighty thousand. American's worship insurance companies (and most other corporations) above God, and they are not willing to pay an extra penny in taxes to save the life of a fellow American. It's every sucker for hims ...[text shortened]... ne is, American's are comfortable in their dysfunctional system, and don't want to change it
    Your generalities are showing.
  5. 19 Aug '15 15:31
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcZ031DSvac

    this is from 2014 but it will never get old. It has bernie sanders in it, that's a plus. right now, i could listen to granpa talk for hours.

    one particular exchange is noteworthy:
    Senator: "Do you know how many people die in Canada because the waiting list is too long?"
    Doctor: "No, but i know that forty ...[text shortened]... s it for everyone, and everyone is free to choose something else when and if they can afford it.
    It's a worse system for me if I have to pay for those who made life choices such that they cannot pay for themselves and then my health care is worse. I vehemently object to the idea that society is better when we continually cater to those who struggle most at the expense of those who have always done the right thing.
  6. 19 Aug '15 15:48 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by quackquack
    It's a worse system for me if I have to pay for those who made life choices such that they cannot pay for themselves and then my health care is worse. I vehemently object to the idea that society is better when we continually cater to those who struggle most at the expense of those who have always done the right thing.
    For the most part, doing "the right thing" means making sure your parents are solidly middle class or higher, well educated and in professions that have staying power and are transferable to other locations in the country. Based on a recent study, the U.S. has the lowest rate of upward mobility of any industrialized country. Also, you can "do the right thing" and make choices that seem very reasonable and "right" and then due to no fault of your own, your company is taken over or downsizes and you loose your job. It is often not very difficult or not possible to sell your home and find a job in another area or state. In the U.S. people like quackquack assume that everyone who is not in their financial shoes is a looser UNTIL they or someone near and dear experiences a job loss or a health issue or a crappy insurance policy that leaves them with huge bills despite all the premiums they paid on time for decades. The really sad part is that this lack of compassion and empathy for fellow citizens will be the downfall of the U.S. economically. With a shrinking middle class and thus fewer people to buy new "stuff" and services, the economy will have a hard time growing. The 1% only needs so many new sheets, jeans, mattresses, and rolls of T.P. It's really very simple. The basic values of the current U.S. conservative view quackquack espouses are unpatriotic and as ruinous to the U.S. as ISIS.

    Study: http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/
    "A new study finds that contrary to widespread belief, it's no harder to climb the economic ladder in the United States today than it was 20 years ago. But the study did find that moving up that ladder is still a lot more difficult in the U.S. than in other developed countries."
  7. 19 Aug '15 16:07
    Originally posted by Phranny
    For the most part, doing "the right thing" means making sure your parents are solidly middle class or higher, well educated and in professions that have staying power and are transferable to other locations in the country. Based on a recent study, the U.S. has the lowest rate of upward mobility of any industrialized country. Also, you can "do the right thin ...[text shortened]... ing up that ladder is still a lot more difficult in the U.S. than in other developed countries."
    Public education is free in this country so are libraries. If you choose not to take advantage of what is given, don't continually ask for others to pay for you.
    It's ironic that liberals always profess to advocate personal freedom, until they suffer consequences for their poor decisions. If you chose to purchase a house that you cannot afford or are unemployable there are consequences. Your advocating of an automatic bail out, is unfair to those who made good decision and are asked to foot the bill.
    Your ISIS comment is amazingly stupid -- but unsurprising given the rest of your post.
  8. 19 Aug '15 16:49
    Originally posted by quackquack
    It's a worse system for me if I have to pay for those who made life choices such that they cannot pay for themselves and then my health care is worse. I vehemently object to the idea that society is better when we continually cater to those who struggle most at the expense of those who have always done the right thing.
    How much are you willing to give up yourself to punish those who made "life choices" you disapprove of?
  9. 19 Aug '15 16:58
    Originally posted by quackquack
    It's a worse system for me if I have to pay for those who made life choices such that they cannot pay for themselves and then my health care is worse. I vehemently object to the idea that society is better when we continually cater to those who struggle most at the expense of those who have always done the right thing.
    you are not alone in a society.

    you are also paying for those that lost a job
    you are also paying for the veterans that lost a leg in a war.
    you are also paying for the roads everyone is driving on.
    you are also paying for the elderly who paid for your education when you were a child

    it is a myth that only you make your own fortune.
    it is also stupid to believe that you can't wind up in the same situation as those "who made life choices". because everybody who cannot afford basic healthcare must be stupid, right?
  10. 19 Aug '15 17:05
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    How much are you willing to give up yourself to punish those who made "life choices" you disapprove of?
    I am not punishing anyone. I simply will not further punish those who already have backbreaking taxes. Adopting the Canadian system which would require those who have insurance to pay for those who don't and for them to then also have longer waiting periods is a huge step in the wrong direction. Since we already provide tremendous opportunities to everyone, no one in the US should be "guilted" into paying more and getting worse care.
  11. 19 Aug '15 17:08
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    you are not alone in a society.

    you are also paying for those that lost a job
    you are also paying for the veterans that lost a leg in a war.
    you are also paying for the roads everyone is driving on.
    you are also paying for the elderly who paid for your education when you were a child

    it is a myth that only you make your own fortune.
    it is also st ...[text shortened]... made life choices". because everybody who cannot afford basic healthcare must be stupid, right?
    Perhaps you don't foot your fair share of the tax bill and maybe you should voluntarily increase your tax burden. But I personally already pay plenty and will not let someone tell me that paying larger amounts for inferior care is a step in the right direction.
  12. 19 Aug '15 17:09
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Public education is free in this country so are libraries. If you choose not to take advantage of what is given, don't continually ask for others to pay for you.
    It's ironic that liberals always profess to advocate personal freedom, until they suffer consequences for their poor decisions. If you chose to purchase a house that you cannot afford or are ...[text shortened]... bill.
    Your ISIS comment is amazingly stupid -- but unsurprising given the rest of your post.
    "Public education is free in this country so are libraries"
    so all a person has to do to have a high paying job is finish highschool and go to the library, right? maybe fork over the 7000$ (average) they don't have to attended a public university. i am sure banks, law firms, companies etc will fight for the privilege to employ such an individual.

    "If you chose to purchase a house that you cannot afford "
    there are slightly more ways than that in which one can become poor. how about being born that way? what personal choices did that lazy, no good toddler do? it must be his fault.

    "or are unemployable there are consequences. "
    there are many poor people with jobs.
    there are even more poor people with several jobs. and they still remain poor.
    now poverty should be discussed in another thread, in this one we are trying to suggest that since one is working 2 jobs to put food on the table and cannot afford a fancy medical insurance, the last thing that person needs is to get sick.
  13. 19 Aug '15 17:24
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "Public education is free in this country so are libraries"
    so all a person has to do to have a high paying job is finish highschool and go to the library, right? maybe fork over the 7000$ (average) they don't have to attended a public university. i am sure banks, law firms, companies etc will fight for the privilege to employ such an individual.

    "If y ...[text shortened]... le and cannot afford a fancy medical insurance, the last thing that person needs is to get sick.
    We all came to this country with nothing, some of use achieved some didn't. We have scholarships and loans for those who wish to get a higher education. I never have had trouble getting jobs because I work hard and many hours.
    This country is filled with assistance programs and we've spent 50 years trying to give more and more and more to those who contribute the least. It's time to stop adding new programs and telling those who already work to pay more.
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Aug '15 18:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by quackquack
    We all came to this country with nothing, some of use achieved some didn't. We have scholarships and loans for those who wish to get a higher education. I never have had trouble getting jobs because I work hard and many hours.
    This country is filled with assistance programs and we've spent 50 years trying to give more and more and more to those who ...[text shortened]... e least. It's time to stop adding new programs and telling those who already work to pay more.
    Did you play Scrooge in your 2nd Grade play and forget to get out of character?
  15. 19 Aug '15 18:42
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Did you play Scrooge in your 2nd Grade play and forget to get out of character?
    No, I simply don't advocate constantly taking from one group to give to another.