Originally posted by bbarrTypical rightwing generalising, here's how it sounds from the left:
Why should I have to pay taxes to support lazy folk who can't hold down jobs?
Why would I have to slave my @ss if for some lazy fraudulent slavedriver to get rich?
Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboardYou shouldn't have to work your ass off for some slavedriver to get rich. You should organize with your fellow workers and use the power of your labor to negotiate for better compensation.
Typical rightwing generalising, here's how it sounds from the left:
Why would I have to slave my @ss if for some lazy fraudulent slavedriver to get rich?
Originally posted by bbarrNow the plot thickens—does the state have any business in making it legal/illegal for workers to form union, bargain collectively, withhold their labor collectively (thinking of early US conspiracy laws here, versus Norris-LaGuardia and the Wagner Act—my labor history is rusty, though)? Laws to govern collective as well as individual rights of contract? Laws protecting/prohibiting the use of strikebreakers, private armies, state militias to put down a strike? There’s a whole semester of US labor history here—at least.
It is perfectly consistent with unrestrained capitalism for the workforce to assemble, rise up, and demand more money. It is inconsistent with unrestrained capitalism for the state to infringe upon the rights of workers to use their labor as a tool of negotiation. The state has no business interfering with the rights of citizens to engage in contractual exchanges.
Originally posted by vistesdNow you've gone and spoiled my fun. 😛
Now the plot thickens—does the state have any business in making it legal/illegal for workers to form union, bargain collectively, withhold their labor collectively (thinking of early US conspiracy laws here, versus Norris-LaGuardia and the Wagner Act—my labor history is rusty, though)? Laws to govern collective as well as individual rights of contract? La ...[text shortened]... ate militias to put down a strike? There’s a whole semester of US labor history here—at least.
Of course, as you point out, these are the issues that seem to me worth exploring; issues rarely on the radar screen of those who advocate economic libertarianism (or, at least, naive versions of economic libertarianism).
Originally posted by bbarrOkay, sorry. 🙁 (Got to go now anyway.) Take care.
Now you've gone and spoiled my fun. 😛
Of course, as you point out, these are the issues that seem to me worth exploring; issues rarely on the radar screen of those who advocate economic libertarianism (or, at least, naive versions of economic libertarianism).
Originally posted by bbarrYou wanna experience unrestrained Capatalism?
Why not let the wisdom of the market sort everything out? It works pretty well on this side of the border!
Take your car up to 150kph, slip it into neutral
and climb on in to the back seat.
Don't worry, natural forces will eventually bring you
to a halt.
Originally posted by UmalakasI'm exploring a particular line of reasoning, not being sarcastic. You should have picked this up from my response to vistesd.
Guys. he's obviously being sarcastic.
To recap, it is unjust for the government to tax me so that deadbeat loafers can luxuriate in psych. wards, with access to the very best psychotropics. They do not deserve my money, as I'm the one who earned it with my labor. Forced taxation is of a piece with forced labor.
2 edits
Originally posted by bbarrOk, let's play!
I'm exploring a particular line of reasoning, not being sarcastic. You should have picked this up from my response to vistesd.
To recap, it is unjust for the government to tax me so that deadbeat loafers can luxuriate in psych. wards, with access to the very best psychotropics. They do not deserve my money, as I'm the one who earned it with my labor. Forced taxation is of a piece with forced labor.
You call a government owned/run work camp with humans all cramped up like animals, treated with no dignity, and druged up to be completely obediant and docile, luxury?
Originally posted by bbarrThe best thing about capitalism is that it seperates the "good folk" from the "lazy folk."
I'm exploring a particular line of reasoning, not being sarcastic. You should have picked this up from my response to vistesd.
To recap, it is unjust for the government to tax me so that deadbeat loafers can luxuriate in psych. wards, with access to the very best psychotropics. They do not deserve my money, as I'm the one who earned it with my labor. Forced taxation is of a piece with forced labor.
If some one gets rich in America, it is because he worked harder. Look at G.W. Bush for a case in point. If you are poor, it is only because you are a too dumb to realize that breeding for welfare checks doesn't get you anywhere.
If you want to get rich, serve Jesus. He will bless you. Look at what he did for Dick Cheney and America.
Originally posted by UmalakasCome on, nobody is treated like that in the United States, unless they're worthless criminals. Maybe in Nova Scotia they're treated like that, but not in the civilized world.
Ok, let's play!
You call a government owned/run work camp with humans all cramped up like animals, treated with no dignity, and druged up to be completely obediant and docile, luxury?
Originally posted by telerionDamn straight. Speak truth to power, Tel.
The best thing about capitalism is that it seperates the "good folk" from the "lazy folk."
If some one gets rich in America, it is because he worked harder. Look at G.W. Bush for a case in point. If you are poor, it is only because you are a too dumb to realize that breeding for welfare checks doesn't get you anywhere.
If you want to get rich, serve Jesus. He will bless you. Look at what he did for Dick Cheney and America.
Originally posted by telerionLOL
The best thing about capitalism is that it seperates the "good folk" from the "lazy folk."
If some one gets rich in America, it is because he worked harder. Look at G.W. Bush for a case in point. If you are poor, it is only because you are a too dumb to realize that breeding for welfare checks doesn't get you anywhere.
If you want to get rich, serve Jesus. He will bless you. Look at what he did for Dick Cheney and America.
Reminds me of a place where I used to work. They were fond of posting little "motivational" posters, basically along the lines of "hard work brings you luck".
It turns out that ALL the supervisors there were either related or had gone to the same college together. One of them actually promoted a girl he was having an adulterous affair with over people actually qualified to do the job and was *busted* when her department went under because she didn't have a clue.
Nepotism is alive and well.
Originally posted by bbarrif "the state has no business interfering with the rights of citizens to engage in contractual exchanges", ...
It is perfectly consistent with unrestrained capitalism for the workforce to assemble, rise up, and demand more money. It is inconsistent with unrestrained capitalism for the state to infringe upon the rights of workers to use their labor as a tool of negotiation. The state has no business interfering with the rights of citizens to engage in contractual exchanges.
then what's all this cr@P about the minimum wage laws?
Originally posted by zeeblebotMinimum wage laws are simply unjust exercises of state power. They prevent me, as a business owner, from freely contracting with a person willing to work for what I'm willing to pay. If workers are unwilling to work for little money, then they ought to organize and negotiate with me. If I offer too little, they should withold their services from me. Eventually, if I want my business to do well, I'll offer wages sufficient to get employees. What's the problem?
if [b]"the state has no business interfering with the rights of citizens to engage in contractual exchanges", ...
then what's all this cr@P about the minimum wage laws?[/b]