Capitalism may have ended life on Mars: Chavez

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's a stupid joke but raises interesting questions nonetheless.

For example, what type of society would thrive best on Mars?

Well, since it's the red planet, I presume a socialist society.

This thread reminds me of this:
http://sfbook.com/images/books/large/the-dispossessed.jpg

Markets are tools. Powerful ones. And like any power tool, it's best handled with care.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
A more nuanced response can be found in Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy. Capitalism takes people to Mars; on Mars they get cured of capitalism and society becomes more 'Minoan' ...

Those are on my list of upcoming books to read.

Originally posted by FMF
Well according to savage4731, economically speaking, there's ONLY two alternatives: Alternative #1: is a centrally planned economy. And Alternative #2- is a market economy.

Well, one, I was trying to explain something and its useful to simplify things when you do so.

And two, there's not really any middle ground in the long run. Countries that allow some socialism eventually will become entirely socialist. Don't believe me? Try taking social security away from an old person.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
A more nuanced response can be found in Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy. Capitalism takes people to Mars; on Mars they get cured of capitalism and society becomes more 'Minoan' ...

Nobody really knows what kind of ecnomic system the Minoans had. Linear A has never been deciphered and most of what is known is only inferred by what's been found.

I did find this though:

" Multiroom constructions were discovered in even the ‘poor’ areas of town, revealing a social equality and even distribution of wealth."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization

Hmmm.. could it be? Another socialist society that died out?

Originally posted by savage4731

Hmmm.. could it be? Another socialist society that died out?

A little joke ... this thread is full of them.

The leading theory is that Minoan civilisation was shattered by volcanic eruptions.

Originally posted by savage4731
Don't believe me? Try taking social security away from an old person.

What happened when you tried it?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
A little joke ... this thread is full of them.

The leading theory is that Minoan civilisation was shattered by volcanic eruptions.

I thought they drowned in bull faeces (bull... get it? hahaha... well, I thought it was hilarious anyways... minotaurs... *sigh*)

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's too late to bomb the Martians, no1.

It's never too late!! 😠

In fact, once Chavez uttered these things Obama dropped what he was doing and sent Tomahawk missils screaming toward the lifeless red planet. 😵

Originally posted by savage4731
...there's not really any middle ground in the long run. Countries that allow some socialism eventually will become entirely socialist. Don't believe me? Try taking social security away from an old person.

Various forms of the 'middle ground' are going on out there almost everywhere, as we speak. 'Politics' and 'democracy' are pretty much all about tweaking and fiddling with this middle ground thing.

Originally posted by FMF
Various forms of the 'middle ground' are going on out there almost everywhere, as we speak. 'Politics' and 'democracy' are pretty much all about tweaking and fiddling with this middle ground thing.

The point is that they're moving towards socialism. You cant just stay in the middle forever. Socialist policies are real easy to implement but almost impossible to get rid of. Eventually those countries will become completely socialist unless something intervenes like the government being overthrown or the economy collapsing. Thats why I said in the long run there is no middle ground.

Originally posted by savage4731
The point is that they're moving towards socialism. You cant just stay in the middle forever. Socialist policies are real easy to implement but almost impossible to get rid of. Eventually those countries will become completely socialist unless something intervenes like the government being overthrown or the economy collapsing. Thats why I said in the long run there is no middle ground.

I don't agree with any of your assertions.

Originally posted by FMF
I don't agree with any of your assertions.

1) There's no assertions. Its logic.

2) Saying you dont agree is like saying you choose to be wrong. You're like the flat Earth people.

3) what part of it could you possibly disagree with?

Originally posted by savage4731
The point is that they're moving towards socialism. You cant just stay in the middle forever. Socialist policies are real easy to implement but almost impossible to get rid of. Eventually those countries will become completely socialist unless something intervenes like the government being overthrown or the economy collapsing. Thats why I said in the long run there is no middle ground.

Agreed savage.

From direct observation over the last 20+ years there has been a steady growth in size and scope of gummint here in NZ and Australia there is constant pressure being applied by career busybodies with a never ending stream of ideas for meddling in the life of average Joe, while average Joe simply makes a career out of getting by. So you see how lop sided the battle is, one side, the paid bureaurats wanting to make your business their business and on the other side people trying to get on with their own lives.

Bastiat saw it very clearly:

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."

The sad thing is young folk coming through that have not known better actually start to believe it is necessary, the other group that think it's necassary are those questing for the unearned, looking to make a grab for another piece of your life and property.

Originally posted by savage4731
what part of it could you possibly disagree with?

Speaking as a supporter of the market economy and social democracy, I'd say that countries can and do stay in the middle and that that is a good thing. I don't think "socialist" policies are really easy to implement - indeed there have been plentiful examples of them being impossible to implement properly - nor that they are almost impossible to get rid of. I don't agree that eventually those countries will become completely socialist. I don't think something necessarily has to intervene like the government being overthrown or the economy collapsing. Elections bring about changes, for example. I don't agree that in the long run there is no middle ground. With an ugly dollop of obvious exceptions, the vast majority of the world's nations chart courses that are 'middle grounds' of various kinds.