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Debates Forum

  1. 02 Sep '17 12:15
    http://www.marinij.com/social-affairs/20170824/san-anselmos-san-domenico-school-creates-stir-by-removing-catholic-statues

    In California, Catholic institutions are removing statues of Mary and Jesus in order to be more "inclusive" to outsiders.

    No doubt, they will be replaced with statues of Marx.
  2. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Sep '17 12:19
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://www.marinij.com/social-affairs/20170824/san-anselmos-san-domenico-school-creates-stir-by-removing-catholic-statues

    In California, Catholic institutions are removing statues of Mary and Jesus in order to be more "inclusive" to outsiders.

    No doubt, they will be replaced with statues of Marx.
    Are you suggesting that more Americans would be attracted by a statue of Marx than one of Jesus and Mary? That is interesting indeed but somewhat counterintuitive. Have you never noticed the fire breathing tirades of the Catholic hierarchy against Marxism, not least those Catholic leaders emerging from Poland and the Soviet empire?
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    02 Sep '17 12:55
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://www.marinij.com/social-affairs/20170824/san-anselmos-san-domenico-school-creates-stir-by-removing-catholic-statues

    In California, Catholic institutions are removing statues of Mary and Jesus in order to be more "inclusive" to outsiders.

    No doubt, they will be replaced with statues of Marx.
    Having said that there are reasons to celebrate Marx in the USA. For example:

    http://nyebevannews.co.uk/the-story-the-republicans-forgot-how-marx-the-british-working-class-helped-abraham-lincoln-defeat-the-slaveholding-confederacy/
  4. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    02 Sep '17 13:40
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://www.marinij.com/social-affairs/20170824/san-anselmos-san-domenico-school-creates-stir-by-removing-catholic-statues

    In California, Catholic institutions are removing statues of Mary and Jesus in order to be more "inclusive" to outsiders.

    No doubt, they will be replaced with statues of Marx.
    How many statutes of Mary are in your church?

    Apparently you read the headline but not the article. The people who run a private school decided that to draw more non-Catholics to pay the tuition there, it might be a good idea to tone down the obviously Catholic elements of said school. That kinda seems like capitalism in action; the tuition there is almost $30,000 a year and 80% of the families that send their kids there do not identity as Catholics.
  5. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    02 Sep '17 21:02
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Are you suggesting that more Americans would be attracted by a statue of Marx than one of Jesus and Mary? That is interesting indeed but somewhat counterintuitive. Have you never noticed the fire breathing tirades of the Catholic hierarchy against Marxism, not least those Catholic leaders emerging from Poland and the Soviet empire?
    There are Catholics who are very pro-Marx in Latin America.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching
  6. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    03 Sep '17 00:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    There are Catholics who are very pro-Marx in Latin America.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_social_teaching
    Even the source you cited does not support what you said. Catholic social teaching is more akin to corporatism and frankly all too adjacent to Fascism, as witnessed in Franco's Spain for example and in Ireland for most of the 20th Century.

    It is true that there are Marxist Catholics and in Latin America there was a tradition of "liberation theology" which took the side of the poor against the rich, but this came into conflict with the Church hierarchy and no Polish Pope was going to stand for a Marxist priesthood for very long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    03 Sep '17 03:05
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Even the source you cited does not support what you said. Catholic social teaching is more akin to corporatism and frankly all too adjacent to Fascism, as witnessed in Franco's Spain for example and in Ireland for most of the 20th Century.

    It is true that there are Marxist Catholics and in Latin America there was a tradition of "liberation theology" w ...[text shortened]... nd for a Marxist priesthood for very long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
    Polish pope? We have a Jesuit liberal pope; an Italian-Argentinian.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    03 Sep '17 03:07
    https://www.thoughtco.com/catholic-liberation-theology-in-latin-america-250963

    Many are less aware of how deeply Liberation Theology draws upon traditions of Catholic social teaching. Gutiérrez was not only influenced by those teachings, but his writings have in turn influenced what has been taught. Many official church documents have made the vast disparities of wealth important themes of church doctrine and argue that the rich should make more of an effort to help the poor of the world.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Sep '17 16:44
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Even the source you cited does not support what you said. Catholic social teaching is more akin to corporatism and frankly all too adjacent to Fascism, as witnessed in Franco's Spain for example and in Ireland for most of the 20th Century.

    It is true that there are Marxist Catholics and in Latin America there was a tradition of "liberation theology" w ...[text shortened]... nd for a Marxist priesthood for very long.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
    How "fascist" does this sound:

    Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the "economy of exclusion" that is taking hold today.

    Francis made the appeal during a speech to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the heads of major U.N. agencies who are meeting in Rome this week."

    In reality, this is not new for Pope Francis.

    "Francis had a similar message to the World Economic Forum in January and in h is apostolic exhortation "The Joy of the Gospel." That document, which denounced trickle-down economic theories as unproven and naive, provoked criticism in the U.S. that he was Marxist.

    https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-francis-legitimate-wealth-distribution

    Or this:

    1947 The equal dignity of human persons requires the effort to reduce excessive social and economic inequalities.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c2a3.htm

    Or:

    “The grave financial and economic crises of the present time ... have pushed man to seek satisfaction, happiness and security in consumption and earnings out of all proportion to the principles of a sound economy,” he said.

    “The succession of economic crises should lead to a timely rethinking of our models of economic development and to a change in lifestyles,” he said.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Francis said many places in the world were seeing a “serious rise” in inequality between people living side by side.

    He attacked the “widening gap between those who have more and those who must be content with the crumbs”, calling on governments to implement “effective policies” to guarantee people’s fundamental rights, including access to capital, services, educational resources, healthcare and technology.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/pope-attacks-mega-salarie_n_4431701.html

    Let me guess; he doesn't really mean it.
  10. 03 Sep '17 21:07
    Here's an article from the 'Catholic Herald':

    http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/05/16/priest-arrested-for-allegedly-helping-mafia-steal-millions-from-migrant-fund/

    "Priest arrested for allegedly helping mafia steal millions from migrant fund"

    "Police said Fr Edoardo Scordio was the 'organiser of a true system of exploitation of
    public funds destined for the migrant emergency'.

    The mafia has moved in on one of Italy’s few growth industries: caring for migrants.
    Italian authorities on Monday arrested 68 people, including a priest and the head of a
    huge Catholic volunteer group, “Mercy,” and accused them of being in cahoots with a
    major mafia clan that allegedly skimmed millions in public funds destined for asylum-seekers
    at a welcome centre in southern Italy."

    "Investigators said the Arena clan of the Calabrian ‘ndrangheta mob
    had secured a lock on servicing the Isola di Capo Rizzuto migrant
    centre for the past decade, thanks in part to its links to “Mercy” and
    its regional head, Leonardo Sacco.

    Sacco is a well-connected Italian, and his arrest took on broader implications
    given the number of politicians linked to him. Even Pope Francis has
    been photographed with him. The Calabrian holding centre is one of
    Italy’s largest, and “Mercy” is a major national organisation that runs
    migrant centres and provides other volunteer services around the country."
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    03 Sep '17 21:39
    Technically the Mafia are Sicilians. ‘Ndrangheta in Calabria and Camorra in Naples are not considered Mafia. According to the legend, all three crime traditions began when three pirate-knights of La Garduña, a Spanish criminal secret society, expanded into Calabria, Naples and Sicily in the 17th century.