Firstly, what is meant by banning? They aren't allowed on schoolgrounds? At one extreme we have the banning of all controvertial material (including many great literary works; Catch 22, Catcher in the Rye, Lolita &c. ) and at the other we have a situation where officals are powerless to remove pornography from the hands of minors.
Or are we talking about "banning", as in the library won't stock it and it is not on assigned reading lists?
well, you cannot have absolute freedom of speech outside of schools. so let alone in them. you cannot buy Mein Kampf in libraries.
now the problem is, do you understand freedom of speech as absolute, or do you deny it to those who you know are wrong. and if so, what does freedom of speech means? free to speak whatever as long as it doesn't offend others?
Larry Flint (Hustler magazine) said "freedom of speech is not freedom for the thought you like but rather fro the thought you hate the most". It is not a big deal if you allow people you like to voice their opinion. But when that person speaks some unlikable things, will you allow him then to speak? that is the true test of democracy.
Of course, the above is all nice in theory, but i cannot allow in good conscience Mein Kampf to be present in schools, and i cannot allow "How to make your own bombs out of household items - for dummies" to be sold in libraries. Extremes are bad, even if they are extremes of good things.
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Originally posted by ZahlanziI think that books like Mein Kampf should be read and discussed in schools, in order to arrive at a better understanding of 20th Century history, particulary the rise of Nazism.
well, you cannot have absolute freedom of speech outside of schools. so let alone in them. you cannot buy Mein Kampf in libraries.
now the problem is, do you understand freedom of speech as absolute, or do you deny it to those who you know are wrong. and if so, what does freedom of speech means? free to speak whatever as long as it doesn't offend others? ...[text shortened]... mmies" to be sold in libraries. Extremes are bad, even if they are extremes of good things.
Similarly, Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto needs to be studied by anyone doing a course on Communism.
However schools have the right to set their own reading policy. A book that has been 'banned' by one school might be required reading in another. I imagine it could also come down to the tastes and preferences of individual teachers.
Originally posted by David Tebbi agree this should be the case in universities, where students are adults and they can decide for themselves. but a 8 year old child reading mein kampf could get some ideas that would be very hard to fix.
I think that books like Mein Kampf should be read and discussed in schools, in order to arrive at a better understanding of 20th Century history, particulary the rise of Nazism.
Similarly, Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto needs to be studied by anyone doing a course on Communism.
However schools have the right to set their own reading policy. A boo ...[text shortened]... ther. I imagine it could also come down to the tastes and preferences of individual teachers.
Originally posted by ZahlanziHave you actually read Mein Kampf? An 8 year old wouldn't get past the first page.
i agree this should be the case in universities, where students are adults and they can decide for themselves. but a 8 year old child reading mein kampf could get some ideas that would be very hard to fix.
My own opinion is that information without context and balance is a dangerous thing.
The aim of education should be to help people develop the skills to understand things and make up their own mind. To that end challenging discussions and critical analysis of contraversial literature can be invaluable.
I do not think that the decent majority should be denied that opportunity because of a fear that an extremist minority might try to exploit an open system.
Obviously common sense also needs to be exercised. You would not expect to teach pre-teens about the history of warfare in the 20th century and therefore no related texts, including Mein Kampf, should be on their curriculum or available to them in the school library. However I would have no problem with teenagers discussing such material in class.
I can understand the argument for a total ban on pornography in schools however that is best addresed through enforcement of age restrictions.
Originally posted by ArachnarchistThis is a tough one. On the one hand, schools are supposed to be the repositories of knowledge and learning, therefore, the idea of censorship and book bans should be anathema. However, schools do not function in a vacuum - they are part of a community with its own varying standards. Moreover, schools are a closed society, much like the military, prison, etc., therefore, they may be subject to their own laws. I think it probably best that local school boards should have the final say in whether or not a book gets pulled.
Should schools be able to ban books because of their content?
Is there or is there not freedom of speech in schools?
Originally posted by ArachnarchistThe problem is that we connect the fact of having a book in a library to the school endorsing and promoting that view.
Should schools be able to ban books because of their content?
Is there or is there not freedom of speech in schools?
What, you allow children to read Mein Kampf? You must advocate Nazism! How dare you! To prove that you do NOT, you must ban the book!
A local school, with a local school board, facing pressure from prominant local individuals following that flawed logic will usually ban the book rather than arguing with them.
This is one very good argument for a National Education Standard.
mpfOriginally posted by spruce112358But then who sets the National Educational Standard ?
The problem is that we connect the fact of having a book in a library to the school endorsing and promoting that view.
What, you allow children to read Mein Kampf? You must advocate Nazism! How dare you! To prove that you do NOT, you must ban the book!
A local school, with a local school board, facing pressure from prominant local individuals f ...[text shortened]... her than arguing with them.
This is one very good argument for a National Education Standard.
For example if you applied that to books in schools, what may be normal for one community, people, region will not always be the same for others.
How would a Jewish school feel about having Mein Kampf book being forced on them by a national standard for example ?
I think it really should be a local choice that reflects the general views of the commiunty injunction with common sense
