08 Oct 12
Hugo Chavez, a burr in Western economic elites' saddle, won another six year term by receiving 54% to united opposition candidate Henrique Capriles 45% with 80% (!) of the electorate turning out to vote.http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/08/14287713-venezuelas-hugo-chavez-wins-3rd-term-vows-to-deepen-socialist-revolution?lite&ocid=msnhp
A most impressive showing. Venezuela's people continue to show broad support for a regime that opposes foreign economic domination and supports egalitarianism as an important societal goal. Kudos to them.
08 Oct 12
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Originally posted by KazetNagorraThe Scandinavian model is hardly applicable to Venezuela which had a concentration of wealth and income never seen in those countries. More radical measures were necessary and have been relatively successful:
Unfortunately Chavez' attempts at introducing reforms to achieve a more egalitarian society are inept at best. Chavez should be copying the Scandinavian model, not scaring away businesses by arbitrary nationalizations and 19th Century methods like price controls.
The ECLAC found that, from 2002 to 2010, poverty was reduced by 20.8 percent, descending from 48.6 percent to 27.8 percent, while extreme poverty went from 22.2 percent to 10.7 percent, which translates to a reduction of 11.5 percent.
The report also states that from 1999 to 2010 Venezuela achieved the second highest rate of poverty reduction: 21.6 percent, falling from 49.4 percent to 27.8 percent. The first country was Ecuador, which reduced poverty by 26.4 percent, down from 63.5 percent to 37.1 percent.
The ECLAC figures coincide with those released by Venezuela’s National Institute of Statistics (INE), which found that poverty was reduced by 21.6 percent between 1998 and the first trimester of 2011, plummeting from 49.0 to 27.4 percent.
The President of the INE, Elias Eljuri, said last week during a televised interview that “ extreme poverty in Venezuela has been reduced since President Hugo Chávez became president. About 2.5 million people in Venezuela have opvercome extreme poverty from 1998 to 2011.”
He said that the poverty index currently reaches 6.8 percent and that increased social investment has been the key to this achievement.
“It’s important to compare the social investment in the years previous to the current government with the last 11 years… Social investment went from 36 to 62 percent. About $400 billion has been invested by this government, whose policy has been aimed at [elevating] the lower-income sectors,” Eljuri highlighted.
Lowered Inequality
Eljuri also mentioned the Gini coefficient, an index used to measure income inequality, noting that Venezuela has Latin America’s lowest Gini coefficient, at 0.394. The closer the Gini coefficient is to zero, the closer a country is to total socio-economic equality.
“In the country this index lowered from 0.49 to 0.39. The closest nation to Venezuela is Uruguay, which is about 0.44. Chile reaches 0.52; Brazil and Colombia report about 0.51. Chile can have the same poverty index than Venezuela, 6.8 percent, but the Gini coefficient is higher because there’s more inequality,” he said
According to ECLAC, the inequality index in Venezuela dropped over 2 percent annually, while rising incomes played an important role in reducing inequality.
http://venezuela-us.org/2012/01/13/eclac-venezuela-has-third-lowest-poverty-rate-in-latin-america/
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by no1marauderThink Obama has already called to congratulate him on another victory for Democrats everywhere?
Hugo Chavez, a burr in Western economic elites' saddle, won another six year term by receiving 54% to united opposition candidate Henrique Capriles 45% with 80% (!) of the electorate turning out to vote.http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/08/14287713-venezuelas-hugo-chavez-wins-3rd-term-vows-to-deepen-socialist-revolution?lite&ocid=msnhp
...[text shortened]... economic domination and supports egalitarianism as an important societal goal. Kudos to them.
08 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderHow has Chavez been on human rights and freedom of speech and so forth? Any doorbells ringing at midnight?
The liberal elites in the US hate Chavez. Read any NYT editorial concerning Venezuela.
Not saying one way or another, just don't know what is going on internally there.
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by no1marauderThe reduction of the Gini is commendable but .39 is still quite high and only slightly lower than the US. Northern European countries have about .25, so to reach that level Chavez will have to look at their policies and implement them. The top income tax rate in Venezuela is a mere 34%, which will have to be increased to preferably 60% or higher (but then Chavez' buddies will have to pay more taxes, so fat chance). Inflation is rampant, unemployment is high, the central banking and price control policies are a joke. Improving access to education and health care has been moderately successful, but in general there is little reason to tout Chavez' regime as one of good governance.
The Scandinavian model is hardly applicable to Venezuela which had a concentration of wealth and income never seen in those countries. More radical measures were necessary and have been relatively successful:
The ECLAC found that, from 2002 to 2010, poverty was reduced by 20.8 percent, descending from 48.6 percent to 27.8 percent, while extreme povert ...[text shortened]... tp://venezuela-us.org/2012/01/13/eclac-venezuela-has-third-lowest-poverty-rate-in-latin-america/
Originally posted by KazetNagorraYou seem to have little, if any, knowledge of the structure of South American countries' economies and societies. I suggest you remedy this extreme ignorance before thinking that every place can be transformed into Norway overnight.
The reduction of the Gini is commendable but .39 is still quite high and only slightly lower than the US. Northern European countries have about .25, so to reach that level Chavez will have to look at their policies and implement them. The top income tax rate in Venezuela is a mere 34%, which will have to be increased to preferably 60% or higher (but th ssful, but in general there is little reason to tout Chavez' regime as one of good governance.
BTW, no country in the world has a marginal tax rate of 60% "or more".
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by sonhouseCoverage of Venezuela is incredibly distorted even within the one newspaper I read, where there are some articles convincing me Chavez is a disaster and others the opposite. There is clear evidence that the US in particular wants to demonize Chavez and is contributing to undemocratic subversion.
How has Chavez been on human rights and freedom of speech and so forth? Any doorbells ringing at midnight?
Not saying one way or another, just don't know what is going on internally there.
First notice that 80% of the people cast a vote in this election and this is something the US or Britain would not easily emulate. This is because huge effort was made to ensure people did and could vote and because they clearly felt they had something important to vote for. The voting mechanism also appears far more robust than anything the US (Florida?) can manage.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/why-us-dcemonises-venezuelas-democracy
There has been debate about term limits but Britain, for example, has no limit on the number of times anyone can be prime minister. Chavez is a properly elected democratic leader.
On media, allegations have been made but they appear unbalanced.
In a report timed for the elections, the so-called Committee to Protect Journalists says that the government controls a "media empire", neglecting to inform its readers that Venezuelan state TV has only about 5-8% of the country's audience. Of course, Chávez can interrupt normal programming with his speeches (under a law that pre-dates his administration), and regularly does so. But the opposition still has most of the media, including radio and print media – not to mention most of the wealth and income of the country.
" Imagine for a moment that ITV had backed a failed coup of the democratically elected government. Would that government simply shrug its shoulders? Or would it refuse to renew ITV's licence (as Venezuela did with RCTV, for exactly this reason)? Would doing so constitute a "curbed media"?" [Obviously, ITV is a British example here] All the evidence says that there is no problem with press freedom.
There no gulags in Venezuela. The opposition candidate actively supported a failed coup against Chavez and is clearly still active in political life.
Under Chávez, oil revenue, 80% of which previously went abroad, has been recovered for investment in infrastructure and social programmes; free healthcare and education has been made available for the first time to the poor; staple foodstuffs have been made available at reasonable prices through public distribution networks; railways, roads and port facilities are being expanded at an unprecedented rate; and innovative forms of communal self-government and public accountability are making Venezuela a model of participatory democracy. This, surely, is to "focus on Venezuela's needs".
In stark contrast, Henrique Capriles' programme of privatisation, austerity and neoliberalism would return the country to the poverty and stagnation of the "lost decades" of the 1980s and 1990s. Watts and Lopez quote Capriles as describing himself as a political centrist "who looks to the left", but this is mere rhetoric coming from a man who belongs to one of the wealthiest families in Venezuela and whose political record includes alleged support for the 2002 anti-Chávez coup.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/03/balanced-coverage-western-bias-chavez-venezuela
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by no1marauderOf course Northern European countries were super wealthy when they implemented their social reform programmes after WW2, right?
You seem to have little, if any, knowledge of the structure of South American countries' economies and societies. I suggest you remedy this extreme ignorance before thinking that every place can be transformed into Norway overnight.
BTW, no country in the world has a marginal tax rate of 60% "or more".
Denmark used to have a top rate of over 60% but according to Wiki it's now slightly below 60%, as it is in Sweden. Norway's is at around 54%, though it should be noted that these countries also have high sales taxes (with top VAT rates of around 25% ), so effectively the top marginal rate is higher than 60% assuming a maximum VAT charge. France just implemented a 75% top rate. As part of austerity measures, the Netherlands implemented a temporary top rate of 68% plus a maximum rate of 75% on executive bonuses.
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by KazetNagorraIf you truly think that the social and economic conditions in Venezuela are in any way similar to those that have existed in Northern Europe at any time in say the last 100 years, then you really are incredibly ignorant probably because of your extreme Eurocentric viewpoint. When Chavez came to power the concentration of wealth, income and political power in his country was beyond anything seen in your pet little Euro social democracies. Multinationals controlled the bulk of the economy and 80% of the proceeds of the main export good (oil) went to overseas capitalists. Plus he had a country needing immense investment in infrastructure, education and health.
Of course Northern European countries were super wealthy when they implemented their social reform programmes after WW2, right?
Denmark used to have a top rate of over 60% but according to Wiki it's now slightly below 60%, as it is in Sweden. Norway's is at around 54%, though it should be noted that these countries also have high sales taxes (with to ...[text shortened]... lands implemented a temporary top rate of 68% plus a maximum rate of 75% on executive bonuses.
Given where he started from, his achievements have been remarkable even if he didn't get to start from 3rd base like your tiny Northern European states.
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by no1marauderI think no1 just called KN a Euroweenie.
If you truly think that the social and economic conditions in Venezuela are in any way similar to those that have existed in Northern Europe at any time in say the last 100 years, then you really are incredibly ignorant probably because of your extreme Eurocentric viewpoint. When Chavez came to power the concentration of wealth, income and political powe ...[text shortened]... emarkable even if he didn't get to start from 3rd base like your tiny Northern European states.
08 Oct 12
Originally posted by no1marauderMultinationals are more evil than Hitler or Stalin. You heard it here first, folks.
If you truly think that the social and economic conditions in Venezuela are in any way similar to those that have existed in Northern Europe at any time in say the last 100 years, then you really are incredibly ignorant probably because of your extreme Eurocentric viewpoint. When Chavez came to power the concentration of wealth, income and political powe ...[text shortened]... emarkable even if he didn't get to start from 3rd base like your tiny Northern European states.
