22 Nov 04
So I'm trying to be a good clan leader AND good ambassador for RHP all at once by inviting non-members to sign up as pawn stars and join my clan.
What do I get back? Most of the time, they tell me they're not paying members so they can't join my clan. Well, d'uh!
I've always heard the speeches that talented chess players are, basically, smarter than normal people. Hmmmm... well, I'm a normal person (I'm certainly not a talented chess player!) and yet the people I offer invitations demonstrate their genius by stating the painfully obvious. Throw in some of the keyboard drivel that appears in half of these forums, and I've got some serious doubts about the mental capacity of some of my opponents, even if they CAN wipe the chess board with me.
So... is it time to set aside this particular misconception? Are good chess players REALLY smarter than the average person... or are good players JUST good chess players?
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by DecanterNo. Chess players aren't smart.
So I'm trying to be a good clan leader AND good ambassador for RHP all at once by inviting non-members to sign up as pawn stars and join my clan.
What do I get back? Most of the time, they tell me they're not paying members so they can't join my clan. Well, d'uh!
I've always heard the speeches that talented chess players are, basically, smarter ...[text shortened]... s players REALLY smarter than the average person... or are good players JUST good chess players?
Some are, some aren't.
A good chess player who isn't smart is likely to be the exception, but then define good player and smart.....
Most chess players with a rating over, say, 2000 are likely to be fairly intelligent. I know some who can barely string a sentence together, but that's not about intelligence.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by RedmikeOk, very polite answer but it also addressed some weak points in my original statement. How about this:
No. Chess players aren't smart.
Some are, some aren't.
A good chess player who isn't smart is likely to be the exception, but then define good player and smart.....
Most chess players with a rating over, say, 2000 are likely to be fairly intelligent. I know some who can barely string a sentence together, but that's not about intelligence.
In my experience, there is a general perception that there is some direct relationship between chess ability and intelligence (for lack of a better reference, IQ). So, do you believe that, in layman's terms, the better you are at chess, the smarter you are?
I already know that quite a few people hold this opinion. I simply want to know if there is a concensus. It'd be especially interesting to me to know if high-ranking players believe that their ranking is a badge of their intellect.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by DecanterThat read like a piece out of 'sex in the city'. You know, when the main character is pondering life and all that...
So I'm trying to be a good clan leader AND good ambassador for RHP all at once by inviting non-members to sign up as pawn stars and join my clan.
What do I get back? Most of the time, they tell me they're not paying members so they can't join my clan. Well, d'uh!
I've always heard the speeches that talented chess players are, basically, smarter ...[text shortened]... s players REALLY smarter than the average person... or are good players JUST good chess players?
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by DecanterNo, I don't believe that chess ability and intelligence are directly related.
Ok, very polite answer but it also addressed some weak points in my original statement. How about this:
In my experience, there is a general perception that there is some direct relationship between chess ability and intelligence (for lack of a better reference, IQ). So, do you believe that, in layman's terms, the better you are at chess, the smarter ...[text shortened]... to me to know if high-ranking players believe that their ranking is a badge of their intellect.
There's a link, but intelligence (IQ) is only one factor in making someone a good player. Time and inclination to spend all of one's free time on chess will improve your chess. But then, for most of us, there are more important things in life.
I think that there's a certain standard of chess ability (don't know exactly what level) which can only be achieved if you're intelligent. Again, though, these terms are very wooly and unscientific.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that, at the top level, chess ability implies intelligence. However, below that chess ability can be the result of many factors - including the ability of stupid people to work hard.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by DecanterI would consider intelligence to be a much more complicated issue than the qualities measured by an IQ test.
Ok, very polite answer but it also addressed some weak points in my original statement. How about this:
In my experience, there is a general perception that there is some direct relationship between chess ability and intelligence (for lack of a better reference, IQ). So, do you believe that, in layman's terms, the better you are at chess, the smarter ...[text shortened]... to me to know if high-ranking players believe that their ranking is a badge of their intellect.
Good chess players will invariably have a high IQ but does that make them smart?
Just look at Bobby Fischer.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by gumbieI've heard that Bobby Fischer's IQ was 180 and that he resented being labelled merely a chess genius; he considered himself to be an all-around genius. If he was right in his self-assessment, then it follows that "smart" people can certainly do unwise things. (Like give up the chance to play Karpov eg)
I would consider intelligence to be a much more complicated issue than the qualities measured by an IQ test.
Good chess players will invariably have a high IQ but does that make them smart?
Just look at Bobby Fischer.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by Decanter
So... is it time to set aside this particular misconception? Are good chess players REALLY smarter than the average person... or are good players JUST good chess players?
You would have to compare the amount of time they spend per move. Some may be exceptionally gifted in 5 minute chess, yet be poor in a long and vice versa.
I know 2 people very skilled at maths that are average/poor at chess, and then I know one person very skilled at chess and poor at maths and other subjects.
I think chess and certain other patern-based games require a certain form of intelligence, must as a good sense of humour requires a certain type of intelligence. Impossibly to generalise really.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by pcaspianI think one can generalise in that there is certainly a correlation between chess rating and IQ. Look at the posts from the people with the higher ratings, and compare with the posts from those people with the lower ratings (native English speakers).
Originally posted by Decanter
[b]
So... is it time to set aside this particular misconception? Are good chess players REALLY smarter than the average person... or are good players JUST good chess players?
You would have to compare the amount of time they spend per move. Some may be exceptionally gifted in 5 minute chess, yet be poor in a lo ...[text shortened]... a good sense of humour requires a certain type of intelligence. Impossibly to generalise really.[/b]
Yes, there is some overlap, but I believe the relationship is clear.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by ivangriceAnd what is the relationship? If you have a higher chess rating than your opponent than you most likely have a higher IQ as well? And you came to this conclusion by analyzing the posts here in the forum? Someone seems to think of themselves a little highly...
I think one can generalise in that there is certainly a correlation between chess rating and IQ. Look at the posts from the people with the higher ratings, and compare with the posts from those people with the lower ratings (native English speakers).
Yes, there is some overlap, but I believe the relationship is clear.
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by darvlayThank you...well said...
And what is the relationship? If you have a higher chess rating than your opponent than you most likely have a higher IQ as well? And you came to this conclusion by analyzing the posts here in the forum? Someone seems to think of themselves a little highly...
22 Nov 04
Originally posted by darvlayHaving analyzed yer posts and yer chess games, Darvlay, I've come to the conclusion that most Tupperware has a higher IQ than you!
And what is the relationship? If you have a higher chess rating than your opponent than you most likely have a higher IQ as well? And you came to this conclusion by analyzing the posts here in the forum? Someone seems to think of themselves a little highly...
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by darvlayIf I had a high rating, you'd have a valid point :-)
Someone seems to think of themselves a little highly...
I repeat - there is a clear relationship between chess rating and the standard of written expression (*a* measure of intelligence, if not *the* measure of intelligence) on this site. Rather than automatically gainsay what has been put forward, have a look 'round and decide yourself.
23 Nov 04
Originally posted by ivangriceWhat about JamesWoodley? He seems boderline retarded when he writes, but his rating keeps improving. Oh, I forgot - he's a weaselly little cheat. That explains it.
If I had a high rating, you'd have a valid point :-)
I repeat - there is a clear relationship between chess rating and the standard of written expression (*a* measure of intelligence, if not *the* measure of intelligence) on this site. Rather than automatically gainsay what has been put forward, have a look 'round and decide yourself.
I've seen a few posts by higher-rated players (1600+) that seem to demonstrate a complete incomprehension of syntax and whatever 15-grunt alphabet they use. I've also seen some posts by lower-rated players (1000-1200) that are pure poetry. Whatever the relationship between a player's fake chess rating on this site and their abilities with the written word, it's anything but clear.