your a right. faith DOES seem a bit childish at times. but so does blind ignorance...that we are somehow a weird, random "fluke" of nature. you may question the intelligence of christians, but i question the intelligence of athiests.
also, the faith bit isn't exactly true-for many christians it is not so much a faith that God exists. that is taken for granted. it is a faith in god, that he is always with you and that he shall protect you.
Of course ignorance is also a problem. To come across 'what is' or in christian parlance 'the kingdom of God' one has to look seriously into oneself. This cannot be done if there is already a pattern or plan which one has been given. You have to look afresh and this means no authority.
Originally posted by The GrowlerAt one time and then another...
Surely by now intelligence and being a Christian must be seriously questioned. When looking at evidence, the only answer can not be 'faith'. This is childish in the extereme.
I was both Growler and Crowley.
In my standing with understanding.
Now I don't take sides. I have come from vehemence and sure knowledge to 'want' of knowing.
Looking for evidence of faith is equal to faith in evidence. A person in science has to have "faith in evidence" and a religious person is required to obtain "evidence of faith".
All that really matters is the quest. The ability to stand before "God And Science" and say that you tried. That's cool.
Originally posted by The GrowlerAnother anti-Christ!...what factory is making these entities....must be 'Made in China'...everything else is....🙄
Surely by now intelligence and being a Christian must be seriously questioned. When looking at evidence, the only answer can not be 'faith'. This is childish in the extereme.
Originally posted by The GrowlerOh people have all sorts of excuses, not a one of which makes them stupid per se.
Surely by now intelligence and being a Christian must be seriously questioned. When looking at evidence, the only answer can not be 'faith'. This is childish in the extereme.
Some common reasons:
1) Grew up indoctrinated (No excuse. Many of us have escaped from this one.)
2) Desired an order in a chaotic world (Understandable. Naturally, they tend turn to the most predominate religion in their culture, the one with which they are most familiar.)
3) Possessed low self-esteem or self-confidence at time of conversion, thus the need to appeal to a higher power for love and strength. (Notice how many conversions take place when the convert is emotionally weak or distressed. Many xtians admit this voluntarily. They generally see it as a sign of Christ's power to change lives. )
4) associated it with a feeling of community or culture (A weaker form really of number 1. Not such a big deal in my book. Especially, if you don't really believe it.)
Naturally, there are more, but I have better things to do right now than badger xtians. Maybe in a few hours 🙂
Originally posted by telerionWhy do you insist on "xtians"?
Oh people have all sorts of excuses, not a one of which makes them stupid per se.
Some common reasons:
1) Grew up indoctrinated (No excuse. Many of us have escaped from this one.)
2) Desired an order in a chaotic world (Understandable. Naturally, they tend turn to the most predominate religion in their culture, the one with which they are most fa ...[text shortened]... are more, but I have better things to do right now than badger xtians. Maybe in a few hours 🙂
Seems a bit programmed. Why not "Christians"? Too not politically programmed?
Any way. Long live good christians and muslims and budhists and daoists and taoists and themists.
I really don't give a crap.
I just am. I'm not an "ist" of any sort. So?
And when I die and lay down my soul to keep,
And arise in a moment from my sleep...
May God forgive my error and lax nature,
May I advise a monument TO my sleepy nature?
'God', of course is just a word and it is the images in our head that we create with words that have become the important thing and not the facts themselves. The word is not the thing.
There is no taking sides, just attention. 'Faith in evidence' and 'evidence in faith' are both still looking in the wrong direction. A moment to moment awareness of oneself in relationship reveals the futility of much. As you say, it is the quest that is living.
I am not anti-Christ, just anti-Christian. I am very pro- Jesus, just anti-Paul. If Jesus were alive today he would say, 'Ok, let's start again'. Also he would have much more freedom to express himself unhampered by the religious/political/social understanding of the time.
I don't have any problems with Christians or most other religious groups; if their faith gives them strength then more power to them.
What I don't like is giving a particular religious sect political power to inflict their beliefs on everyone.
Haven't we already done this? Isn't Northern Ireland, or the Sunni/Shiite conflict enough?
*sings* Gimme that old time secular humanism Gimme that old time secular humanism Gimme that old time secular humanism, it's good enough for meeeee ...