Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    08 Dec '18 04:29
    The biggest news out of it comes on p. 11 where it discusses Cohen's illegal campaign contributions i.e. his payments to Karen McDougal and Stephanie Clifford (AKA Stormy Daniels):

    During the campaign, Cohen played a central role in two similar schemes to purchase the
    rights to stories – each from women who claimed to have had an affair with Individual-1 – so as
    to suppress the stories and thereby prevent them from influencing the election. With respect to
    both payments, Cohen acted with the intent to influence the 2016 presidential election.
    Cohen
    coordinated his actions with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings
    and phone calls, about the fact, nature, and timing of the payments. (PSR ¶ 51). In particular, and
    as Cohen himself has now admitted, with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with
    and at the direction of Individual-1.
    (PSR ¶¶ 41, 45). As a result of Cohen’s actions, neither
    woman spoke to the press prior to the election. (PSR ¶ 51).

    https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5453401/SDNY-Cohen-sentencing-memo.pdf

    The wording is significant. It clearly states the "hush payments" made weeks before the election were made to benefit the Trump campaign and were thus illegal campaign contributions (the amounts were far above those allowed). And Cohen admitted, not claimed or alleged, acting in coordination with and under the direction of Individual 1 i.e. Donald Trump.

    In blunt terms, an official court document filed by federal prosecutors accuses Donald Trump of committing a crime i.e. conspiring with and ordering someone to make an illegal campaign contribution to aid his Presidential campaign.

    We've known of this allegation since September of course, but for prosecutors to actually confirm that they believe it surely indicates that there is more evidence than merely Cohen's assertion. And the memo further shows that Cohen was later reimbursed by the Trump Organization for these illegal contributions on a fraudulent basis:

    At the instruction of an executive for the Company, Cohen sent monthly invoices to the
    Company for these $35,000 payments, falsely indicating that the invoices were being sent pursuant
    to a “retainer agreement.” The Company then falsely accounted for these payments as “legal
    expenses.” In fact, no such retainer agreement existed and these payments were not “legal
    expenses” – Cohen in fact provided negligible legal services to Individual-1 or the Company in
    2017 – but were reimbursement payments. Cohen then received the $420,000 during the course
    of 2017. (PSR ¶¶ 54-56).
    5

    p. 14

    These are bombshells beyond question.
  2. Behind the scenes
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    08 Dec '18 04:34
    @no1marauder said
    The biggest news out of it comes on p. 11 where it discusses Cohen's illegal campaign contributions i.e. his payments to Karen McDougal and Stephanie Clifford (AKA Stormy Daniels):

    During the campaign, Cohen played a central role in two similar schemes to purchase the
    rights to stories – each from women who claimed to have had an affair with Individual-1 – so as
    to s ...[text shortened]... 000 during the course
    of 2017. (PSR ¶¶ 54-56).
    5

    p. 14

    These are bombshells beyond question.
    Let us hope enough Republicans in Congress see it that way. 🙂
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    08 Dec '18 15:26
    @no1marauder

    There's more to come. We haven't heard what Flynn knows, or knew. I expect a couple of other canaries will sing before this is finished.

    So, who's taking bets on which head rolls first: MbS or Trump ('really great pals'! ) ?
  4. Subscriberlemondrop
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    08 Dec '18 15:341 edit
    @moonbus said
    @no1marauder

    There's more to come. We haven't heard what Flynn knows, or knew. I expect a couple of other canaries will sing before this is finished.

    So, who's taking bets on which head rolls first: MbS or Trump ('really great pals'! ) ?
    literally or figuratively?
  5. Subscribersonhouse
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    08 Dec '18 17:19
    @lemondrop
    I'll take either😉
  6. Joined
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    08 Dec '18 19:08
    @no1marauder
    Mueller has a target rich investigation in front of him.
    The Trumpskulls can call that a witch hunt till their faces turn blue.

    I will leave the Russian link aside for now and just put forth this question to the Trumpskulls.

    If Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal had surfaced in the media 2 weeks before the 2016 election, do you really think Trump would have won ?
    And should Trump now be in legal hot water over this ?

    Just asking.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    08 Dec '18 19:16
    @mghrn55 said
    @no1marauder
    Mueller has a target rich investigation in front of him.
    The Trumpskulls can call that a witch hunt till their faces turn blue.

    I will leave the Russian link aside for now and just put forth this question to the Trumpskulls.

    If Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal had surfaced in the media 2 weeks before the 2016 election, do you really think Trump would have won ?
    And should Trump now be in legal hot water over this ?

    Just asking.
    From the Atlantic:

    Cohen, they say, schemed to pay for two women’s stories (Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, we now know) in violation of campaign-finance laws in order to influence the 2016 election, and did so “in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1”—that is, the president of the United States. As the brief puts it:

    While many Americans who desired a particular outcome to the election knocked on doors, toiled at phone banks, or found any number of other legal ways to make their voices heard, Cohen sought to influence the election from the shadows. He did so by orchestrating secret and illegal payments to silence two women who otherwise would have made public their alleged extramarital affairs with Individual-1. In the process, Cohen deceived the voting public by hiding alleged facts that he believed would have had a substantial effect on the election.

    If the Southern District’s fury at Cohen is notable, its explicit accusation that President Trump directed and coordinated campaign-finance violations is simply stunning. The prosecutors’ openness suggests that they are sure of their evidence and have mostly finished collecting it.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/mueller-briefs-bad-news-trump-manafort-and-cohen/577681/

    Rudy on May 3, 2018:

    When asked why Cohen paid Daniels the money, Giuliani said Cohen made the allegations against Trump go away, saying "he did his job."

    “Imagine if that came out on Oct. 15, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with Hillary Clinton?" Giuliani asked.

    "Cohen made it go away," he added. "He did his job."

    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/386035-giuliani-imagine-if-that-came-out-in-the-middle-of-the-last

    According to SDNY prosecutors and Cohen himself the "job" Donald Trump gave him was a felony.
  8. Joined
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    09 Dec '18 04:461 edit
    @no1marauder

    Any day now................

    Mm......love the taste of nothing burgers.

    So what are they going to do, drag this out till a month before the Presidential election and then try to impeach him?
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    09 Dec '18 05:24
    @whodey
    Maybe Trump will be in jail before then and we deal with 'pray away the gay' Pence.
  10. Subscribermoonbus
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    09 Dec '18 10:26
    @mghrn55 said
    @no1marauder
    Mueller has a target rich investigation in front of him.
    The Trumpskulls can call that a witch hunt till their faces turn blue.

    I will leave the Russian link aside for now and just put forth this question to the Trumpskulls.

    If Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal had surfaced in the media 2 weeks before the 2016 election, do you really think Trump would have won ?
    And should Trump now be in legal hot water over this ?

    Just asking.
    Does anybody remember Gary Hart? A picture of him on a yacht sank his presidential candidacy.
  11. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
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    09 Dec '18 10:471 edit
    @moonbus said
    Does anybody remember Gary Hart? A picture of him on a yacht sank his presidential candidacy.
    Yep, that was nothing compared to John Edwards' transgressions.

    And Edwards' ugly hush-money affair is nothing compared to this despicable outrage.

    Conservatives should never be allowed to escape this gaping hypocrisy.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Dec '18 10:57
    @whodey said
    @no1marauder

    Any day now................

    Mm......love the taste of nothing burgers.

    So what are they going to do, drag this out till a month before the Presidential election and then try to impeach him?
    https://www.facebook.com/TheGoodLordAbove/photos/a.608095492611491/2790201304400888/?type=3&theater
  13. Joined
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    09 Dec '18 15:16
    @no1marauder said
    The biggest news out of it comes on p. 11 where it discusses Cohen's illegal campaign contributions i.e. his payments to Karen McDougal and Stephanie Clifford (AKA Stormy Daniels):

    During the campaign, Cohen played a central role in two similar schemes to purchase the
    rights to stories – each from women who claimed to have had an affair with Individual-1 – so as
    to s ...[text shortened]... 000 during the course
    of 2017. (PSR ¶¶ 54-56).
    5

    p. 14

    These are bombshells beyond question.
    Why didn't John Edwards get prosecuted?

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/john-edwards-hush-money-not-illegal-fec-told-121722338--abc-news-topstories.html
  14. Germany
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    09 Dec '18 16:201 edit
    @whodey said
    @no1marauder

    Any day now................

    Mm......love the taste of nothing burgers.

    So what are they going to do, drag this out till a month before the Presidential election and then try to impeach him?
    Your president committing crimes is a "nothing burger (sic)"?
  15. Subscriberno1marauder
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    09 Dec '18 16:481 edit
    @metal-brain said
    Why didn't John Edwards get prosecuted?

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/john-edwards-hush-money-not-illegal-fec-told-121722338--abc-news-topstories.html
    Actually he did get prosecuted. He was acquitted on one count and the jury deadlocked on five others. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-edwards/ex-senator-edwards-acquitted-on-campaign-finance-charge-idUSBRE84T1KA20120531

    His defense that the payments were merely to avoid embarrassment to his family was dubious but far more plausible than it would be in this case since the hush payments here were made weeks before the election and the person Trump directed to make the payments admits that they were for the purpose of influencing the election.
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