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  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Nov '11 10:18 / 1 edit
    Norwegian disbelief at Breivik 'insanity'

    The Norwegian public, politicians and experts alike are expressing surprise at the verdict of the forensic psychiatrists assessing Anders Behring Breivik.

    Many psychiatrists were quoted by the news media ahead of Tuesday's announcement as saying that he was likely to be deemed sane.

    Breivik himself has said he found the verdict insulting and that although he had feared it, he had not expected this outcome.

    The Norwegian media's general use of the term schizophrenic also fails to match their portrayal of Breivik. This makes it hard for people to understand how the verdict was reached, triggering concerns that he is "getting away lightly".

    The media have given minute descriptions of how Breivik spent years planning his attacks. His ability to do so makes it difficult for many people to accept that he cannot be held to account for them.

    In Norway, only about one in five of similar forensic assessments tend to conclude that the perpetrator was insane. This has led even some experts to question the committee's findings.

    Media coverage reflects the public's uncertainty at the verdict.

    The website of the broadsheet newspaper Aftenposten carried a headline on Tuesday evening with a quote from a Swedish psychiatrist expressing surprise. He points out that Breivik does not appear to have been hallucinating at any point during the attack.

    Svenn Torgersen, professor of psychology at the University of Oslo, pointed out to the newspaper Dagbladet that Hitler and Stalin would have been unlikely to receive the same diagnosis as Breivik.

    Meanwhile, journalist and commentator Anders Giever remarked in the newspaper VG that although Breivik's statements might seem delusional to outsiders, he has most likely been supported in his view of reality by other users of the extreme right-wing forums he frequented.

    The name of Quisling, leader of Norway's collaborationist government during the Nazi occupation, is frequently brought up in debates on web forums as a comparison.

    Do somebody's extreme opinions preclude them from being held responsible for their actions?

    There is also concern as to how this verdict will affect those directly affected by the attacks.

    Lawyer Brynjar Meling, representing several of the victims of the attacks, has already requested a second opinion on the verdict.

    Progress Party member Per Sandberg expressed surprise and outrage at the verdict in an interview with Norwegian public broadcaster NRK.

    "The verdict cannot be accepted," he said. "Victims must be certain that he will not be released any time soon."

    Sandberg added that his party, of which Breivik was previously a member, would call for a review of how one determines whether a person is fit to stand trial.
    But Dagfinn Hoybraten, the previous Christian Democratic Party leader, told the broadcaster that he disagrees.

    "We are fortunate to have an independent justice system in Norway, and therefore politicians like us need to keep from telling them what they should be doing," he said.

    Liberal party leader Trine Skei Grande agreed, saying that the current regulations must be abided by.

    The report will now be examined by the Forensic Commission, who are free to give further comments or ask for more work to be done.

    Lawyers have however pointed out that they are unlikely to attempt to overturn the verdict of such a thorough report.

    The trial will proceed in much the same manner as if Breivik had been found sound of mind. Evidence will still be examined, and the court has the final say as to whether or not they believe Breivik is guilty of having carried out the attacks.

    However, they usually heed the forensic assessment, which in all likelihood means he will not be sentenced to prison, but sectioned instead.

    Some are less surprised by the verdict, pointing to Breivik's manifesto as evidence of his delusions.

    Web forums also emphasise that this outcome is not entirely negative. If sent to prison, Breivik would have ample opportunity to stoke right-wing extremist opinions among fellow inmates as a sort of martyr.

    Being under treatment in a high-security mental health unit will, if nothing else, severely limit his ability to do so.

    Lawyer Carl Bore, also representing some of the victims, told NRK that although he is surprised, he sees no reason to doubt the committee's verdict.

    He points out that Norway has done a lot of soul-searching since this summer.
    "People ask themselves how this could happen, and look for scapegoats," he said. "Maybe we can more easily move on as a society when we see that it was simply caused by a sick person."

    Surprise or not, Norway's struggle to cope with this manifestation of right-wing extremism is sure to be affected by the verdict.


    BBC

    Will him being under treatment in a high-security mental health unit rather imprisoned in a regular gaol end up being the best outcome for Norway?
  2. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    30 Nov '11 10:41 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]Norwegian disbelief at Breivik 'insanity'

    [quote]The Norwegian public, politicians and experts alike are expressing surprise at the verdict of the forensic psychiatrists assessing Anders Behring Breivik.

    Many psychiatrists were quoted by the news media ahead of Tuesday's announcement as saying that he was likely to be deemed sane.

    Breivik himself r imprisoned in a regular gaol end up being the best outcome for Norway?[/b]
    I don't know if it will be good for Norway, but in some way the verdict is good, because it establishes his crime as something a normal person would not think to carry out. The fact that he meticulously planned and carried out this outrage, rather than diminishing the claim that he was mentally ill, is all the more evidence of his mentally ill condition. Locking him up with the ordinary prison population, if nothing else, normalizes his actions, as something any other reasonable criminal might contemplate.

    Where is the line between hate and mental illness? Crimes of passion, ultimately involve a temporary deranged state, where the person committing the crime is so overwhelmed by circumstances that a violent response might be the only programmed response they can react with. A crime of such hate where the killer broods over the perceived loss of national identity and then targets a group on the left of the political spectrum as being the root cause of the perceived loss, how is that not insane? Its not logical to come to that conclusion, its definitely not rational, so, what else are we left with? I would argue that all race-hate crime originates out of a disturbed mind. Treating the perpetrators thereof has to include a mental health approach...
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Nov '11 13:55
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]Norwegian disbelief at Breivik 'insanity'

    [quote]The Norwegian public, politicians and experts alike are expressing surprise at the verdict of the forensic psychiatrists assessing Anders Behring Breivik.

    Many psychiatrists were quoted by the news media ahead of Tuesday's announcement as saying that he was likely to be deemed sane.

    Breivik himself ...[text shortened]... r imprisoned in a regular gaol end up being the best outcome for Norway?[/b]
    The insanity standard in Norway must be very liberal. In the US, to be deemed insane (long story short), the defendant must be unable to understand the nature and consequence of his actions or be unable to conform his conduct to the norms of society. It's hard for me to envision Breivik getting away with an insanity defense in the US based on what I've read about his "condition."

    This judgment seems almost like a no true Scotsman cop-out. "We don't have extremists who would do this sort of thing so one who does must be insane."

    As for whether it's better for Norway, well, I suppose that if they keep him in an institution for life (or at least until he's good and old) I suppose it doesn't matter that much. If they let him out in a few years, well, then they're ones who ought to be pleading insanity.
  4. Standard member skipper2666
    Why so serious ????
    04 Dec '11 18:47
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]Norwegian disbelief at Breivik 'insanity'

    [quote]The Norwegian public, politicians and experts alike are expressing surprise at the verdict of the forensic psychiatrists assessing Anders Behring Breivik.

    Many psychiatrists were quoted by the news media ahead of Tuesday's announcement as saying that he was likely to be deemed sane.

    Breivik himself ...[text shortened]... r imprisoned in a regular gaol end up being the best outcome for Norway?[/b]
    Seems to me that they want and will bury him in a high securuty asylum deugged up to the eyballs , so that he can't communicate with anyone.

    Bury him that way and you bury "The Story"......The Authorities don't seem to want some of the issues in their society or from the events that he carried out to be aired.

    He then becomes the "Lone Madman" with no friends who think the same, no related orginisations that think the same, no other Norweigens who think the same as he does.

    He should go through due process and go to trial so that justice is done.

    The more you ignore a problem the worse it gets, the more it spreads.... confront it and stop it as you would with any criminal behaviour.
  5. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    04 Dec '11 18:49
    I still think they should make a blood eagle out of him.
  6. 05 Dec '11 01:05
    It is a tragic situation but other than ensuring that he personally can never harm anyone I don't see what can be done. Most likely there are plenty as mentally ill who would love to inflict retribution on him but that will never bring a victim back or improve the lives of those missing their loved ones. Giving in to that will only create more monsters just like this guy. Hatred does stop hatred. It only fuels more hatred. This is a fact long known by intelligent and compassionate people.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Jan '12 12:42
    Court orders new tests on Breivik

    A court in Norway orders a new psychiatric evaluation of mass killer Anders Behring Breivik after an earlier report found him legally insane.

    Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen said in Oslo that the new evaluation was necessary because of widespread criticism of the initial findings.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16547473
  8. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    13 Jan '12 13:19
    Originally posted by FMF
    Court orders new tests on Breivik

    A court in Norway orders a new psychiatric evaluation of mass killer Anders Behring Breivik after an earlier report found him legally insane.

    [b]Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen said in Oslo that the new evaluation was necessary because of widespread criticism of the initial findings.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16547473[/b]
    The judge sits on the First Circuit Court of Public Opinion.