1. Standard memberno1marauder
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    04 Mar '13 18:091 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    For the first 170 years, auto and truck travel didn't demand such a system. One of Truman's big projects back in Missouri was road building. Lots of roads were built prior to the Civil War, but rail and water remained the preferred transport method.
    The Federal government started providing funds for road building as early as the Jefferson administration.http://history1800s.about.com/od/transportation/a/nationalroad.htm
    Even then it was recognized that reliance on the States in matters of national transportation was inadequate.

    EDIT: From the link:

    The National Road was the inspiration for other federal roads, some of which were constructed during the time the nation's first highway was still being built.

    And the National Road was also enormously important as it was the first large federal public works project, and it was generally seen as a great success. And there was no denying that the nation's economy, and its westward expansion, were greatly helped by the macadamized road that stretched westward toward the wilderness.
  2. Standard memberno1marauder
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    04 Mar '13 18:18
    And, of course, the Federal government made possible the vast expansion of railroads:

    In 1850, Congress began granting federal land to develop railroads. Government leaders thought railroads would help attract settlers to undeveloped regions of the Midwest and the South. The railroad companies kept some of the land for right of way and sold the rest to pay railroad construction costs. The first grant helped build a railroad from the Great Lakes at Chicago to the Gulf of Mexico at Mobile, Alabama. Settlers poured into the area along the route after the railroad's completion in 1856. The success of the experiment convinced Congress to continue granting federal lands for railroad development. In return, all United States railroads agreed to carry government troops and property at half the standard rates and United States mail at four-fifths the standard rates. These rates remained in effect until the mid-1940's.

    The railroads continued to expand during the 1860's. They played a major role in the Civil War (1861-1865) by moving troops and supplies to battle. The South was at a disadvantage because it had far fewer railroad tracks and locomotives than the North had. After the war, iron and steel bridges were built across such major rivers as the Ohio, the Mississippi, and the Missouri.

    The first transcontinental rail lines. In the early 1860's, the United States government decided to extend rail lines across the country. The proposed route roughly followed the 42nd parallel from Omaha, Nebraska, to Sacramento, California. Eastern rail lines were to be extended westward from Chicago to meet the new railroad at Omaha. Congress passed the Pacific Railroad Act in 1862. The act gave two companies responsibility for building the railroad. The Union Pacific was to start laying track westward from a point near Omaha. The Central Pacific Railroad was to lay track eastward from Sacramento. Congress granted both railroads large tracts of land and millions of dollars in government loans.

    http://www.laughtergenealogy.com/bin/histprof/misc/railroads.html
  3. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    04 Mar '13 18:33
    While Chinese laborers built the Central Pacific, Irish labor built the Union Pacific.
  4. The Catbird's Seat
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    05 Mar '13 20:59
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The Federal government started providing funds for road building as early as the Jefferson administration.http://history1800s.about.com/od/transportation/a/nationalroad.htm
    Even then it was recognized that reliance on the States in matters of national transportation was inadequate.

    EDIT: From the link:

    The National Road was the inspiration for oth ...[text shortened]... on, were greatly helped by the macadamized road that stretched westward toward the wilderness.
    How did the central government getting to be in charge promote the activity? Didn't that fact create great land grabs, corruption, bribery, and violence?
  5. The Catbird's Seat
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    05 Mar '13 21:01
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    While Chinese laborers built the Central Pacific, Irish labor built the Union Pacific.
    Note please that slaves weren't used in railroad and bridge building. They were capital goods, too expensive to be put at risk in such dangerous work.
  6. Standard memberno1marauder
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    05 Mar '13 21:09
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Note please that slaves weren't used in railroad and bridge building. They were capital goods, too expensive to be put at risk in such dangerous work.
    What? They were uneconomical according to your arguments in the other thread.
  7. Standard memberno1marauder
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    05 Mar '13 21:14
    Originally posted by normbenign
    How did the central government getting to be in charge promote the activity? Didn't that fact create great land grabs, corruption, bribery, and violence?
    Cuz no one else was willing to build such a road. Are you familiar with the concept of "public goods"?

    (Shrug) You act like there is no corruption in private sector activity. Your ideological blindness always shows.

    No matter what unfortunate corruption occurred, the plain fact is that federal government intervention to build a transportation infrastructure was essential to robust economic growth in this country. The Framers recognized this even if it is country to your far out ideology.
  8. The Catbird's Seat
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    05 Mar '13 21:27
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    What? They were uneconomical according to your arguments in the other thread.
    There is nothing contradictory in those facts. Think about it, even if it hurts. Part of the reason that slave were uneconomical is that they represented too much capital investment, without enough return.

    They weren't used in railroad and bridge building due to high mortality in those areas of work. Chinese and Irish were free and disposable.
  9. The Catbird's Seat
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    05 Mar '13 21:29
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Cuz no one else was willing to build such a road. Are you familiar with the concept of "public goods"?

    (Shrug) You act like there is no corruption in private sector activity. Your ideological blindness always shows.

    No matter what unfortunate corruption occurred, the plain fact is that federal government intervention to build ...[text shortened]... h in this country. The Framers recognized this even if it is country to your far out ideology.
    Lots of roads and "turnpikes" were built prior to the civil war, where they were needed, and not to feed the ambition of politicians or the greed of their patrons.
  10. Standard memberno1marauder
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    05 Mar '13 21:41
    Originally posted by normbenign
    There is nothing contradictory in those facts. Think about it, even if it hurts. Part of the reason that slave were uneconomical is that they represented too much capital investment, without enough return.

    They weren't used in railroad and bridge building due to high mortality in those areas of work. Chinese and Irish were free and disposable.
    They weren't used in the Intercontinental Railroad work because it wasn't OKed until after the Emancipation Proclamation and most of the work was done after the 13th Amendment.

    So for decades the price of slaves rose in the market even though they yielded insufficient return to justify the investment? Be serious.
  11. Standard memberno1marauder
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    05 Mar '13 21:43
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Lots of roads and "turnpikes" were built prior to the civil war, where they were needed, and not to feed the ambition of politicians or the greed of their patrons.
    Sure local politicians are immune from corruption just like private capitalists.🙄

    The Framers knew that local roads would be insufficient to meet the economic demands of a quickly expanding country and economy. They were right and you are wrong.
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