In the spirit of all the HRC fans who blamed Jill Stein for Hillary's loss because, you know, everybody who voted for the Green Party should have been morally bound to vote for a Democrat instead, what about 2020 and the right wing laissez faire Libertarian Party?
IF the voters who cast their ballots for the economically conservative Jo Jorgensen had instead cast their ballots for the economically conservative Donald Trump, he would have won Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Arizona based on present vote counts. Assuming that doesn't change and also that the Donald holds on to his leads in North Carolina and Alaska, he'd have 289 Electoral votes and would be on his way to a (shudder!) second term.
So Earl the avowed "libertarian" here, did your candidate elect Joe Biden?
Americans really need to be embarrassed.
This whole trump thing has made you into the laughing stock of the known universe.
And still so many people voted him. And now you’re saying that if it wasn’t for some third party unknown, he would still have won a second term???
That’s seriously moronically worrying.
@no1marauder saidI would like to think that is true but I hardly think you have the proper figures.
In the spirit of all the HRC fans who blamed Jill Stein for Hillary's loss because, you know, everybody who voted for the Green Party should have been morally bound to vote for a Democrat instead, what about 2020 and the right wing laissez faire Libertarian Party?
IF the voters who cast their ballots for the economically conservative Jo Jorgensen had instead cast their ...[text shortened]... shudder!) second term.
So Earl the avowed "libertarian" here, did your candidate elect Joe Biden?
Not all Libertarians came over from the Repubs. I am one that came over from the Dems.
@shavixmir saidAmericans don't care what the rest of the world thinks.
Americans really need to be embarrassed.
This whole trump thing has made you into the laughing stock of the known universe.
And still so many people voted him. And now you’re saying that if it wasn’t for some third party unknown, he would still have won a second term???
That’s seriously moronically worrying.
@earl-of-trumps saidThat's unimportant; the Libertarian Party's economic platform is the Republicans' on steroids and you've shown little interest and/or outright antagonism to the LP's social issue positions.
I would like to think that is true but I hardly think you have the proper figures.
Not all Libertarians came over from the Repubs. I am one that came over from the Dems.
It will be interesting to see if exit polls got a meaningful sample of 2016 Gary Johnson voters and see who they voted for this time.
@no1marauder
WIth the what, 50,000 votes? A drop in the bucket, if ALL those votes went to T Biden would still win.
@no1marauder saidAlthough typically Libertarians say that we pull equally from both parties, my argument this year was that we should go after Never-Trumpers because they were more disgruntled. Conservative Democrats could wait for another year.
In the spirit of all the HRC fans who blamed Jill Stein for Hillary's loss because, you know, everybody who voted for the Green Party should have been morally bound to vote for a Democrat instead, what about 2020 and the right wing laissez faire Libertarian Party?
IF the voters who cast their ballots for the economically conservative Jo Jorgensen had instead cast their ...[text shortened]... shudder!) second term.
So Earl the avowed "libertarian" here, did your candidate elect Joe Biden?
But I was disappointed when some of my colleagues hung on to the "both old parties are exactly equally bad" mantra - on the principle that we should never praise either. Expressing such a preference was what got Bill Weld into hot water 4 years ago.
@sonhouse saidJorgensen so far has 1,728,353 votes. https://www.google.com/search?q=2020+presidential+election+results&oq=2020+&aqs=chrome.1.69i59l2j69i57j69i59j0i131i433i457j69i60l3.10757j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (hit the "Show More" tab under Biden's and Trump's national totals)
@no1marauder
WIth the what, 50,000 votes? A drop in the bucket, if ALL those votes went to T Biden would still win.
You can check my math regarding the State votes here: https://results.decisiondeskhq.com/
As I predicted, Green votes plummeted; Howie Hawkins has only 348,000 votes so far, a fraction of Jill Stein's 1,457,218 received in 2016.
@no1marauder
I thought it was much less but 1.7 mil votes given to Trump, would that have let him stay in office? Joe is up near 5 million votes so he would still be up more like 3, seems like he would still win but with smaller margins.
But why do you say it hurt only Trump? Do you think libertarians are all ex republicans?
I for sure don't know much about libertarians.
The only thing I heard was they were weak on foreign policy and ONLY interested in US affairs.
That is the sum total of my probably iffy knowledge of them.
@sonhouse saidBiden would have won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College if all those who voted for the right wing Libertarian Party had voted for Trump.
@no1marauder
I thought it was much less but 1.7 mil votes given to Trump, would that have let him stay in office? Joe is up near 5 million votes so he would still be up more like 3, seems like he would still win but with smaller margins.
But why do you say it hurt only Trump? Do you think libertarians are all ex republicans?
I for sure don't know much about liberta ...[text shortened]... y and ONLY interested in US affairs.
That is the sum total of my probably iffy knowledge of them.
Their platform is extremely laissez faire and in synch with the far right on economic issues.
@no1marauder saidGood point. If we were to do the same blame game done to Nader and Stein we should do the same to the libertarian. Naturally, nobody wants to blame our inferior voting system and promote IRV/ranked voting.
In the spirit of all the HRC fans who blamed Jill Stein for Hillary's loss because, you know, everybody who voted for the Green Party should have been morally bound to vote for a Democrat instead, what about 2020 and the right wing laissez faire Libertarian Party?
IF the voters who cast their ballots for the economically conservative Jo Jorgensen had instead cast their ...[text shortened]... shudder!) second term.
So Earl the avowed "libertarian" here, did your candidate elect Joe Biden?
How about we demonize Gavin Newsom? He vetoed ranked choice voting in California. He is a piece of crap!
@no1marauder saidLibertarians advocate for small, efficient, frugal government that protects all our rights equally.
Biden would have won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College if all those who voted for the right wing Libertarian Party had voted for Trump.
Their platform is extremely laissez faire and in synch with the far right on economic issues.
Sometimes we happen to agree with the right or the left (two wings of the same bird, as we say). But quite often Libertarians are not lining up with either group - for example when it comes to massive deficit spending or endless wars.
So calling the group "far right" would be a misnomer, at least for some of us. Laissez-faire to some degree. But Laissez-faire quickly devolved into crony-capitalist protectionism with government-protected monopolies and contracts. We are strongly against that.
There is a Libertarian anarchist faction that wants to see government destroyed in order to eliminate taxation. They are a vocal minority.
But if we cost Trump this election - fine. He was no Libertarian.
@spruce112358 saidSeriously? You think once they control government they will destroy what they finally run?
Libertarians advocate for small, efficient, frugal government that protects all our rights equally.
Sometimes we happen to agree with the right or the left (two wings of the same bird, as we say). But quite often Libertarians are not lining up with either group - for example when it comes to massive deficit spending or endless wars.
So calling the group "far right" ...[text shortened]... ion. They are a vocal minority.
But if we cost Trump this election - fine. He was no Libertarian.
Why go through all that trouble to control something just to give it up?