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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member RBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    20 Mar '15 16:40
    My dad emailed this to me. He is into mind therapy. I've tried to do it in the past but it just doesn't work for me to put on a head set and listen to music therapy without words.

    http://www.fisherwallace.com/?gclid=CMHlvOvytMQCFZJefgoday4AeQ

    Interesting to use this instead of drugs to help Depression.

    Has anyone here used this yet? $600
  2. 20 Mar '15 18:11
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    My dad emailed this to me. He is into mind therapy. I've tried to do it in the past but it just doesn't work for me to put on a head set and listen to music therapy without words.

    http://www.fisherwallace.com/?gclid=CMHlvOvytMQCFZJefgoday4AeQ

    Interesting to use this instead of drugs to help Depression.

    Has anyone here used this yet? $600
    If it jabbers like a quack, and beats its chest like a quack, and most importantly charges like a quack...

    If you want effective depression therapy, join a group already.
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    20 Mar '15 19:07 / 4 edits
    As a first check, I looked at the research evidence on anxiety and depression and found that in a sample of 12 subjects, treated for six weeks, then "At endpoint, 6 patients (50% of the intent-to-treat sample and 67% of completers) had a 50% decrease in HAM-A score" (Hamilton Rating Scale for Anxiety)

    So 6 subjects were less anxious after six weeks. This is a tiny sample, the measure is probably all you will get since it is hard to measure otherwise, there is absolutely no mention of a control group.

    For most therapies, we already know that the prospects of improvement do not differ between different therapies nor between any therapy and none. No matter what we do for them, people will get better at similar rates over time, which seems to be the best healer. We also know that such measures as these are unreliable indicators, partly because there is no way of checking if the benefits (if there are any) are lasting. To be clear, over the six week period it is not surprising that six (50% ) of the subjects report a lower anxiety score. It would not be surprising if they spent the six weeks studying motorcycle maintenance instead or working for a drive through MacDonalds.

    In short, the evidence cited is so trivial as to be laughable. Now you may think I should work through all of the other evidence cited but I decline. My choice of test was pretty arbitrary if not truly random (I picked a topic I knew something about) and what I found fitted very well into what I expected. Impressive looking documents that few people will be able to read critically are not evidence, they are trickery and deception to the point of malpractice and fraud.


    The fact that American doctors may endorse this "therapy" and that some insurers may pay out for it simply tells us something worrying about American medical practices. Celebrity endorsement is not scientifically relevant.

    For any health treatment, the only type of evidence worth considering requires proper methodology, including a justified sample size, comparison with a control group and preferably with alternative treatments as well, and random assignment of subjects to each group. The measure should be meaningful and the outcomes significant. The results should be replicated in an independent study. There should be no commercial link with the seller of this product.

    If this treatment did work and had the evidence to back it up it would be massively deployed around the US and other countries. It does not have the evidence and it is not massively deployed. But it is probably a tidy little earner for some jerk with a screwdriver.

    This fits the profile for a scam. If you wish to spend money on scams then please send me a personal message for details of my bank account.

    For that matter, if you suffer from anxiety and depression and feel so desperate that you are considering spending that money on a scam, send me a PM and I will point you to better options without making any charge at all for my time and interest.
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    21 Mar '15 10:29
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    My dad emailed this to me. He is into mind therapy. I've tried to do it in the past but it just doesn't work for me to put on a head set and listen to music therapy without words.

    http://www.fisherwallace.com/?gclid=CMHlvOvytMQCFZJefgoday4AeQ

    Interesting to use this instead of drugs to help Depression.

    Has anyone here used this yet? $600
    Interesting idea, and might be a breakthrough of sorts. For those who don't want to spend $600.00, depression can be cured many times, by simply getting involved in some activity, anything from playing a musical instrument, to cleaning out a closet. Its hard to start, but a sense of accomplishment can do wonders for depression.