Go back
Energy: now what?

Energy: now what?

Debates

divegeester
watching in dismay

STARMERGEDDON

Joined
16 Feb 08
Moves
120562
Clock
09 Jul 23

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/27/nuclear-power-is-back-in-the-game-but-remains-a-distant-prospect-for-uk

The UK govt is ramping up the use of electric cars with deadlines about banning new diesel (like diesel was ever cleaner than petrol, but we will leave that for now) cars by 2030 or whatever it is.

Problem is the national grid isn’t geared up for millions of electric cars, there isn’t enough charging points for the ones we have now and old electric car batteries are terrible for the environment and no one has a plan for disposal.

Furthermore, the cost of electric cars is stupendously high and depreciation will be much higher as they don’t have the longevity of combustion motors. So the market is going to shift from Teslas to crappy little semi-disposable boxes with no residual value and we will burn through millions of them producing even more environmentally unfriendly batteries. See above. These batteries are big, heavy and can’t be recycled.

Then there’s power. We don’t have enough electric power, not nearly enough. Most of our nuclear power plants are going offline in a few years and we aren’t building anything like enough new ones. We need probably 50 nuclear plants online in 20 years just to cover electric supply today, let alone the millions of these electric cars. So we probably need 100 nuclear plants maybe more.

Or we could have a billion of those fuk-ugly wind turbines I suppose. Windmills, I mean really… really!

I drive a 3 litre 6 cylinder, 8-speed auto, diesel BMW. It gives 58 mpg on a run and 255 horses when I need them, it’s the best car I’ve ever driven and they’ll pry it from my dead hands.

My bro in law drives a Tesla. It is nippy to be fair, but it’s a soulless poorly made pos; but he thinks he’s saving the planet. Bless him and his middle England life.

We need Nuclear power en mass now, or none of this battery powered BS is gonna happen.

Thoughts on any of this?

Wajoma
Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

Joined
01 Sep 04
Moves
78933
Clock
09 Jul 23

@divegeester said
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/27/nuclear-power-is-back-in-the-game-but-remains-a-distant-prospect-for-uk

The UK govt is ramping up the use of electric cars with deadlines about banning new diesel (like diesel was ever cleaner than petrol, but we will leave that for now) cars by 2030 or whatever it is.

Problem is the national grid isn’t geared up for ...[text shortened]... power en mass now, or none of this battery powered BS is gonna happen.

Thoughts on any of this?
Sweden has abandoned their 100% unreliable renewable power goals, and shifted to what they call fossil fuel free power i.e. nuclear.

Great King Rat
Infidel

Joined
24 Apr 10
Moves
15242
Clock
09 Jul 23
Vote Up
Vote Down

In The Netherlands - and I would assume this is similarly true for other countries - we are faced with the absolutely absurd situation where, for years, the population has been pushed to get solar panels - which we did - only to find out that the electrical companies have been woefully lacking in updating their infrastructure.

This means that right now, people are adviced to either use electricity during the day (which I can’t do since I work) or - in some cases - to shut off their solar panels since it’s actually costing the owner money when they deliver electricity back to the grid.

At the same time though, companies are asked to shut off air condition during the day since they use up too much electricity.

And all the while, new, huge solar panel parks are being built.

What we have here is NOT a shortage of energy, but rather a disgraceful lack of vision and responsibility from our right wing idiotic government and the electrical companies whose only aim is to make money.

Investments should have been made years ago to make sure we can actually use the enormous amount of solar energy we’re now capturing.

But yeah, let’s build nuclear power plants instead…

Wajoma
Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

Joined
01 Sep 04
Moves
78933
Clock
09 Jul 23
1 edit

@great-king-rat said
In The Netherlands - and I would assume this is similarly true for other countries - we are faced with the absolutely absurd situation where, for years, the population has been pushed to get solar panels - which we did - only to find out that the electrical companies have been woefully lacking in updating their infrastructure.

This means that right now, people are a ...[text shortened]... s amount of solar energy we’re now capturing.

But yeah, let’s build nuclear power plants instead…
It's not left versus right, if anything it's the left/greenies who have been pushing the unreliable renewables.

Solar panels are useless without batteries and the technology isn't there. Solar energy makes other energy sources (coal, natural gas, other fossil fuels, nuclear) less efficient because it's constantly fluctuating, the other energy sources run most efficiently at constant speeds, it's not like putting your foot on the accelerator of your car. On Guam (you'll see the solar farms on google maps) if the sun goes behind a cloud that's an issue for the other power sources, by the time they're wound up to address the shortfall the suns out again there's too much power/wasted power, that's what the batteries are for, to try to smooth out the erratic power delivery. The batteries can't even get Guam pop 170 000 through the night. Wind just complicates things further.

The senseless push for renewables has been billions of dollars wasted and those countries that are furthest ahead with the move also have the most expensive, most unreliable power which hurts everyone.

Great King Rat
Infidel

Joined
24 Apr 10
Moves
15242
Clock
09 Jul 23
Vote Up
Vote Down

It isn’t just batteries, it is the infrastructure on how to get all of the solar energy from the houses to the electrical grid that should’ve been updated years ago.

The technology “isn’t there” because the electrical companies had no incentive to spend time and money on improving the technology.

Today, we are seeing mild improvements in this regard, but it’s laughably late and not enough.

And as we continue to see a rise of retrded visionless right-wing politics, it’s not looking good for the foreseeable future.

Wajoma
Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

Joined
01 Sep 04
Moves
78933
Clock
09 Jul 23
2 edits

@great-king-rat said
It isn’t just batteries, it is the infrastructure on how to get all of the solar energy from the houses to the electrical grid that should’ve been updated years ago.

The technology “isn’t there” because the electrical companies had no incentive to spend time and money on improving the technology.

Today, we are seeing mild improvements in this regard, but it’s l ...[text shortened]... a rise of retrded visionless right-wing politics, it’s not looking good for the foreseeable future.
You can't just say 'spend more money' there's untold billions going into developing battery technology internationally, there's a race, it's very competitive, the rewards for whoever can crack it could be huge, incredible incentives, natural incentives (not the false incentives of forced goobermint money). Power Co's all over the world are right this minute shopping for batteries, looking for the most reliable, the longest lasting, the best value for money, and in response to that there are Co's racing each other trying to be the best, the rewards for a better battery are there, people are pouring everything into it.

Currently it's not physically possible, our world is governed by physics, it's wishful thinking to keep throwing money at it. On the one hand you complain about the unreliable power and on the other you say 'just spend more'. I agree this should be improving it's 2023 people should not be told to turn their heating/air-con off there're plentiful energy sources it's the one eyeed pursuit of renewables that has caused these problems.

A cloud passes in front of the sun, that's an issue. THat should not be happening in these modern times.

Right wing goobermints have been suckered into the unreliable renewable virtue signaling too.

Get off the right versus left seesaw, they're two heads of the same beast.

divegeester
watching in dismay

STARMERGEDDON

Joined
16 Feb 08
Moves
120562
Clock
09 Jul 23
3 edits

Well you need about 12,000,000 domestic solar panels, with all there supporting infrastructure to output as much as a nuclear power plant. And that assuming the sun is shining on them all the time.

We need about 50 nuclear power plants to power the uk (without the increase in electric cars) so that’s about 600 million domestic solar panels.

(In the UK there are about 25 million houses (let’s assume that doesn’t include apartments) and about 1.2 million already have solar panels. Lets average the number of panels per roof at 10.

So 600,000,000 / 10 gives us a requirement of 60 million homes requiring solar panels and we have 23.8 million.

Let assume every house in the UK has solar panels (25 million) that still leaves us short of the equivalent of 35 million houses about 55% of our electricity requirement. Without millions more electric cars.

So yes we need LOTS of nuclear power because there is no alternative, currently.

Edit: assuming it’s not a 100 nuclear plants we need, which it may be - either way solar panels aren’t the big solution, they may help but nuclear is the only way forward imo.

divegeester
watching in dismay

STARMERGEDDON

Joined
16 Feb 08
Moves
120562
Clock
09 Jul 23

PS welcome back GKR, good to see you posting again.

vivify
rain

Joined
08 Mar 11
Moves
12456
Clock
09 Jul 23

@great-king-rat said
What we have here is NOT a shortage of energy, but rather a disgraceful lack of vision and responsibility from our right wing idiotic government and the electrical companies whose only aim is to make money.

Investments should have been made years ago to make sure we can actually use the enormous amount of solar energy we’re now capturing.
Well said. But it goes even further than that that. Right-wingers in my government actively try to stop the advancement of electric vehicles, solar panels, etc.

Instead of proposing ideas to improve such technology right-wingers will instead mock green energy and spread propaganda about it since they profit from the fossil fuel industry. Joe Machin, a right-wing Democrat who makes millions from the coal industry, continually votes against green energy initiatives.

Right-wingers will scream about rising gas prices. Their solution: allow more drilling for oil. Anything other than moving to renewable resources.

Trump once infamously said that windmills "cause cancer". This statement highlights the right-wing desperation to hold on to profits at any cost, the planet be damned. This includes discrediting the world's climate scientists using any and all propaganda.

The hefty tax breaks Right-wingers love giving to the rich should be given to Incentivise better EVs and green infrastructure.

Great King Rat
Infidel

Joined
24 Apr 10
Moves
15242
Clock
09 Jul 23

@divegeester

I’m not back, I never stopped reading the debates in this insanity asylum. The topic at hand merely triggered me into replying since the current situation in The Netherlands really is insane.

If I ever truly leave this place I’ll be sure to announce it in a heartfelt “Adieu” post 😉

Great King Rat
Infidel

Joined
24 Apr 10
Moves
15242
Clock
09 Jul 23
Vote Up
Vote Down

@vivify

Yes, it’s insane how much effort is done by left-wingers to prepare ourselves for the future and how much right-wingers attempt to stop any such progress while clinging to the past.

Great King Rat
Infidel

Joined
24 Apr 10
Moves
15242
Clock
09 Jul 23
Vote Up
Vote Down

@divegeester

Solar panels are only part of the solution. An important part, and they can become way more powerful than they currently are if their power is truly utilised, but still only a part.

There are all kinds of technological advancements as well as a change in the way we live our lives that can be done to battle both the energy crisis and the climate crisis.

Unfortunately, a large part of the powers that be have little interest in these advancements.

I’m not again nuclear power plants by definition, but they should be seen as a last resort.

When I was a child, virtually every house had a sunshade (not sure if that’s the right word) in front of their major window to keep the sun out. Over the years, many of those have disappeared and now in the summer everyone blasts their air-conditioning at full power. Meanwhile, a sunshade is cheap and does an excellent job at keeping out part of the heat.

There isn’t “one” solution to these issues, but if we were to truly make an effort we could do so much better than what we’re doing now without resorting to building a ton of nuclear power plants.

Great King Rat
Infidel

Joined
24 Apr 10
Moves
15242
Clock
09 Jul 23
Vote Up
Vote Down

@wajoma said
You can't just say 'spend more money' there's untold billions going into developing battery technology internationally, there's a race, it's very competitive, the rewards for whoever can crack it could be huge, incredible incentives, natural incentives (not the false incentives of forced goobermint money). Power Co's all over the world are right this minute shopping for batte ...[text shortened]... virtue signaling too.

Get off the right versus left seesaw, they're two heads of the same beast.
I have not complained about the unreliable power, I have complained about my right-wing government and electrical companies not doing a proper job.

When households can no longer give back electricity to the grid during the day - because the grid can’t handle the supply - while at the same time there isn’t enough energy during that same day for airco’s - because the grid can’t handle the demand - it is clear the infrastructure is not where it should’ve been already.

https://www.liander.nl/nieuws/2022/08/31/batenburg-start-levering-200-transformatorhuisjes-aan-liander%E2%80%AF%E2%80%AF

In Dutch. Crap like this should’ve started years ago.

Wajoma
Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

Joined
01 Sep 04
Moves
78933
Clock
09 Jul 23

@great-king-rat said

When households can no longer give back electricity to the grid during the day - because the grid can’t handle the supply - while at the same time there isn’t enough energy during that same day for airco’s - because the grid can’t handle the demand - it is clear the infrastructure is not where it should’ve been already.
That is unreliable power.

Do you really think it matters if you vote right or left. The two main parties of every country in the world are only inches apart, it's all a façade, they know they'll get one or two terms then everyone will get pissed off and think they've changed something by voting them out, then one or two terms later the same thing happens again, meanwhile most of the legislation bought in which the opposition party has made an act out of opposing remains. seesaw, seesaw goes kid rat.

divegeester
watching in dismay

STARMERGEDDON

Joined
16 Feb 08
Moves
120562
Clock
09 Jul 23

@great-king-rat said
@divegeester

If I ever truly leave this place I’ll be sure to announce it in a heartfelt “Adieu” post 😉
I look forward to it!

😂

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.