Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 01 Aug '17 02:50
    Virtue or vice?
  2. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    01 Aug '17 11:17
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Virtue or vice?
    What does God tell you?
  3. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Aug '17 11:31
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    What does God tell you?
    Take it to Spiritual spanky.

    There's enough god bothering here without you provoking them.
  4. 01 Aug '17 13:03
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    What does God tell you?
    God says envy is a sin
  5. 01 Aug '17 13:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    Take it to Spiritual spanky.

    There's enough god bothering here without you provoking them.
    But this is a political forum, which is equivalent to a religious forum. Both are a belief systems that embraced with no real proof.

    God tells us that envy is a sin, but our politicians tell us that it is a virtue and that we need to take from others, that is, the top 1%.
  6. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    01 Aug '17 14:00 / 6 edits
    Originally posted by @whodey
    But this is a political forum, which is equivalent to a religious forum. Both are a belief systems that embraced with no real proof.

    God tells us that envy is a sin, but our politicians tell us that it is a virtue and that we need to take from others, that is, the top 1%.
    Well at the moment the top 1% are taking from everyone else, quite systematically, and using their power and wealth to accellerate that process.

    The politicans elected to power in the USA are very clearly on the side of the wealthy.

    In the past 40 years the only transfer of wealth has been from the majority to the 1%. That is where the wealth has been travelling.

    Theoretically we are told that as the 1% get richer they create wealth for eveyone else, especially those for who they supply work. After 40 years we can say with all the supporting evidence that wages have stagnated or fallen, good jobs have been taken out of the economy and replaced with insecure and poorly paid unskilled service jobs, public services have been decimated, poverty has escalated, that includes in work poverty for a growing and huge proportion of USA and UK workers, health gains are beign reversed, .... The rich are buying goods for display or investing in inflated property and asset prices, while holding their wealth offshore in forms that are beyond taxation or regulation. Private debt is ballooning again, as it did up to the 2008 crash, because most people are prevented from achieving a decent standard of living by this unfair and corrupt economic system.

    Are you saying that wanting to retain what is ours against misappropriation by the wealthy is a sin of envy?
  7. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    01 Aug '17 15:57
    Originally posted by @whodey
    But this is a political forum, which is equivalent to a religious forum. Both are a belief systems that embraced with no real proof.

    God tells us that envy is a sin, but our politicians tell us that it is a virtue and that we need to take from others, that is, the top 1%.
    This is a debates forum.
    Since when do we only discuss politics?
  8. 01 Aug '17 16:33
    Originally posted by @whodey
    But this is a political forum, which is equivalent to a religious forum. Both are a belief systems that embraced with no real proof.

    God tells us that envy is a sin, but our politicians tell us that it is a virtue and that we need to take from others, that is, the top 1%.
    Where is a wealthy person better off, in Norway or the U.S.?
  9. 01 Aug '17 18:29
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    This is a debates forum.
    Since when do we only discuss politics?
    Right.

    No seriously, this is the Trump forum, so what do you think?

    Is envy a sin?
  10. 01 Aug '17 18:29
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Where is a wealthy person better off, in Norway or the U.S.?
    Norway cuz socialism is cool.
  11. 01 Aug '17 18:31
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Well at the moment the top 1% are taking from everyone else, quite systematically, and using their power and wealth to accellerate that process.

    The politicans elected to power in the USA are very clearly on the side of the wealthy.

    In the past 40 years the only transfer of wealth has been from the majority to the 1%. That is where the wealth h ...[text shortened]... g that wanting to retain what is ours against misappropriation by the wealthy is a sin of envy?
    Really? And where do these jobs go? Is it nor 3rd world countries that makes the poor in the US look like they are rich in comparison?

    I would think Progs would be ecstatic that these jobs are going to a poorer population in the world.

    What am I missing?

    No, these elitists who are the top 1% are wonderful Progs. They give the jobs to those who really need them the most.
  12. 01 Aug '17 18:33
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Are you saying that wanting to retain what is ours against misappropriation by the wealthy is a sin of envy?[/b]
    You only have what the state says you can have. The state is the ultimate decider of such things, not you. They can levy taxes as they see fit, or simply take your land if they deem it necessary. You are just dust in the wind and are told what rights you do and don't have.

    Or are you an anarchist?
  13. 01 Aug '17 20:52
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Norway cuz socialism is cool.
    The correct answer is indeed Norway.

    Now, why would it be "envy" to enact sound policies that make the vast majority of people better off?

    Hint: look up what "diminishing marginal utility" means.
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    01 Aug '17 23:14 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @whodey
    You only have what the state says you can have. The state is the ultimate decider of such things, not you. They can levy taxes as they see fit, or simply take your land if they deem it necessary. You are just dust in the wind and are told what rights you do and don't have.
    Or are you an anarchist?
    "You only have what the state says you can have."
    The state usually says you can have and keep land as private property and it will secure your property rights with all the force of the state against any encroachment by those without land.

    "The state is the ultimate decider of such things, not you. "
    The US constitution is constructed around its concern for property rights. The UK has never taxed or restricted ownership of land to any signifcant extent.

    Private ownership of land seems pretty widespread to me. Publicly owned land tends to be constrained. I see no evidence of that situation being under threat any time soon.

    "or simply take your land if they deem it necessary."
    If you investigate the origins of land ownership you will be surprised how often it originates in taking land from other people, how much is transferred through inheritance, and how little of its value is in any remote way attributable to the efforts of the owner. The privatisation of land once in common ownership, as in Britain's land clearances or the USA's genocide of native Americans, typically results in the state, having used its force to indeed clear ordinary people from the land, transferring the land on generous terms to wealthy owners.

    Trump's property empire, for example (he is not unusual let alone unique) was built on dubious state support for socially harmful developments: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html

    "They can levy taxes as they see fit"
    Land ownership places said private owners in a position to secure a rental income from lesser mortals as they see fit. Land owners benefit from asset price inflation and monopoly positions in desperate markets to get rents far beyond any reflection of merit or effort. A significant percentage of houses in London are kept empty as investment vehicles by offshore owners, aggravating a critical housing shortage in a city filled with houses. They are kept empty partly to keep prices from falling.

    "You are just dust in the wind and are told what rights you do and don't have."
    Those who do not own land are just dust in the wind. Wealthy investors do not care a tinker's curse about your housing needs.

    "Or are you an anarchist?"
    Trying to argue that property rights are under threat from "the state" is laughable; they are under threat from the wealthy.

    The anarchist here is the one wishing the state would vanish, leaving the wealthy and powerful with a free hand, and that is you of course.
  15. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    02 Aug '17 02:24
    Originally posted by @finnegan

    Trying to argue that property rights are under threat from "the state" is laughable; they are under threat from the wealthy.

    [/b]
    The only thing wealthy folk can do is make you an offer 'x' dollars, if you don't like it just say so.

    The goobermint just takes it under something called emminent domain.

    They also continue to charge you rent, even though you pay off your mortgage, the goobermint will never let you be debt free, every month they want their rent/tax/fine for you owning a piece of dirt. Looking on the bright side if you dont pay your rent/tax/fine they'll remove the property from you.

    Perhaps you have some examples of wealthy folk threatening property rights without resorting to the violence of state.