03 Oct 10
How does one measure a society's level of happiness?
It has been said that equality fosters happiness in society, with low crime rates, less poverty, low unemployment,etc it would be expected that people would therefore be happier than those who lived in dissimilar places with a higher level of inequality, a wider gap between rich and poor.
Japan for example is an industrialized and economically prosperous nation, and yet it has a considerably high suicide rate. Obviously there are other variables here that must be taken into consideration.
.....
discuss.
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by zeeblebotIndeed, but the point about happiness remains. Individuals who were happy surely wouldn't commit suicide.
historically, suicide was an honorable way out in japan.
Perhaps I could mention sweden (another prosperous and highly equal society) which has a relatively high suicide rate.
03 Oct 10
1 edit
Suicide is a pretty poor measure because only a very small fraction of the populace commit suicide, even in Japan, so it's not reasonable to extrapolate their unhappiness to the entire populace. If you simply ask people if they are happy (which is certainly not without its flaws either) you get this:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_hap_net-lifestyle-happiness-net
This particular statistic does seem to correlate with equality, though there are some odd men out like the Philippines and Venezuela.
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by generalissimoI think you don't understand Japanese culture. Have you ever studied it?
Indeed, but the point about happiness remains. Individuals who were happy surely wouldn't commit suicide.
Perhaps I could mention sweden (another prosperous and highly equal society) which has a relatively high suicide rate.
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by KazetNagorravery interesting.
Suicide is a pretty poor measure because only a very small fraction of the populace commit suicide, even in Japan, so it's not reasonable to extrapolate their unhappiness to the entire populace. If you simply ask people if they are happy (which is certainly not without its flaws either) you get this:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_hap_net-life ...[text shortened]... correlate with equality, though there are some odd men out like the Philippines and Venezuela.
03 Oct 10
Originally posted by generalissimosweden is a dark, cold place 🙂.
Indeed, but the point about happiness remains. Individuals who were happy surely wouldn't commit suicide.
Perhaps I could mention sweden (another prosperous and highly equal society) which has a relatively high suicide rate.
does suicide go up in the nordic countries in the winter?
04 Oct 10
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Originally posted by generalissimoAmong prosperous, developed, Western countries, the Swedish suicide rate is lower than that in New Zealand, France, Switzerland, Belgium and Austria, so trying to correlate egalitarianism with suicide rates won't wash. It's said that the myth that Sweden has unusually high suicide rates was promoted by the Eisenhower administration to discredit socialism.
Indeed, but the point about happiness remains. Individuals who were happy surely wouldn't commit suicide.
Perhaps I could mention sweden (another prosperous and highly equal society) which has a relatively high suicide rate.
In Japan, there are no religious taboos on suicide; it's accepted as the logical and honourable thing to do in certain circumstances. In other words, the high Japanese suicide rate doesn't show that more people are unhappy than they are in the West; it just shows that unhappy people are more likely to commit suicide there. It's also my impression that mental health problems are not as well understood and not as well treated within the Japanese medical system, which is very technical and tends to assume that most problems can be resolved by prescribing medicine.
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by generalissimoConsider a hypothetical society where 99.999% of the population were happy.
Indeed, but the point about happiness remains. Individuals who were happy surely wouldn't commit suicide.
Perhaps I could mention sweden (another prosperous and highly equal society) which has a relatively high suicide rate.
If you were in the unhappy 0.001% wouldnt you want to commit suicide?
So an overall happpy society could actually promote suicide.
So all things considered I dont think there is any correlation between general happiness and suicide rates.
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by TeinosukeFurther to my point about Japan, at the time when Sweden was claimed to have an unusually high suicide rate in the 1960s, it too was set apart from other European countries by its secularism and liberal legal position, which tended to make it more likely that suicides would be reported as such. As social scientist and economist Gunnar Myrdal commented in 1966:
In other words, the high Japanese suicide rate doesn't show that more people are unhappy than they are in the West; it just shows that unhappy people are more likely to commit suicide there.
"This statistic is affected by a heavy bias which raised the apparent Swedish rate in comparison with all, or almost all, other countries. In England, for example, suicide is still a crime. In most countries, particularly the Catholic ones, it is a grave sin against the Creator. In secularized Sweden, it is not a crime and not a sin, though a regrettable deviation from normal behavior. When committed with a sane mind it is gradually becoming viewed, however, as almost a human right and a civil liberty. In any case, it is strictly a personal and family matter. Among the absolute taboos in Swedish journalism, which no newspaperman would think of transgressing, is the rule never to give publicity to suicides or divorces -- they are assumed to belong to an intimate sphere from which outsiders should keep away. Thus, there is much less temptation in Sweden than other countries for relatives to press for a verdict of accidental death when a man falls from a window or a woman takes too large a dose of sleeping pills."
04 Oct 10
Originally posted by wolfgang59What you said combined with the next post. Catholicism might be a factor in discouraging suicides, but it most certainly is a factor in under-reporting.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File😕uicide_rates_map_es.svg
thought this might be useful until I noticed that the data changed depending on what language you viewed it in!!
However it was useful in showing low suicide rates in Latin America ... presumably influence of Catholicism?