Ethanol and farmers profits

Originally posted by Merk
If you windfall tax the corporate farms, it gives them an incentive to lower prices.

What's that gonna do to the little guy?

I doubt the little guy will get a decent price either way. I wouldn't tax the the corporate farmer either, I seriously doubt he would partake of any windfall!

Originally posted by Chaswray
I guess I misread your post then, I though the gist of your message was that they should be taxed, I don't really think you should be taxed for making money either. My only point was that the farmer has suffered far too long and should be allowed to make a decent living.


I was raised on a dairy farm, in the mid 60's milk sold for 80 to 90 cents a gallo ...[text shortened]... aid us .03 cents a gallon. I just don't think it will be the farmer who profits from ethanol!

I was writing it with that stint, so you didn't really read it wrong. I do think the farmers will be making some more money with the ethanol program for a while and even with other crops due to the resultant food shortages.

As an example you will be paying more for your tequila now because mexican farmers are switching to corn. Corn will bring them more money than growing the agave, which is used to make tequila.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18926019/

Originally posted by lepomis
[b]I was writing it with that stint, so you didn't really read it wrong. I do think the farmers will be making some more money with the ethanol program for a while and even with other crops due to the resultant food shortages.

As an example you will be paying more for your tequila now because mexican farmers are switching to corn. Corn will bring them more ...[text shortened]... than growing the agave, which is used to make tequila.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18926019/[/b

I doubt we would see food shortages due to corn being grown for ethanol. The corn used for ethanol is field corn, normally used for livestock feed. In 2004 American farmers produced a record 11.8 billion bushels of the stuff of which only 13% went to the production of ethanol. These numbers are from the National Corn Growers Assoc.

Farmers who normally would grow vegetables for the table might be hard pressed to "tool over" to the production of field corn in a large enough scale to profit from it. I might be wrong there.

And as far as the tequila? Won't bother me till it affects the price of my Tennessee sippin' whiskey😉

Originally posted by Chaswray
I doubt we would see food shortages due to corn being grown for ethanol. The corn used for ethanol is field corn, normally used for livestock feed. In 2004 American farmers produced a record 11.8 billion bushels of the stuff of which only 13% went to the production of ethanol. These numbers are from the National Corn Growers Assoc.

Farmers who normally w as the tequila? Won't bother me till it affects the price of my Tennessee sippin' whiskey😉

I am no expert, but many are suggesting food shortages, resulting in higher prices for almost everything. Here is a easy read.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/f1a136eb64603110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

Originally posted by lepomis
I am no expert, but many are suggesting food shortages, resulting in higher prices for almost everything. Here is a easy read.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/f1a136eb64603110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

I'm not either, but according to what I've read, a lot if not most of what is used for livestock feed is still available even when the corn is used for ethanol. Only the starch is used in the making of ethanol.

Here's a dissenting view


http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/economics/foodVsFuel.asp

Originally posted by lepomis
why would they have to lower their prices?

Supply and demand. They'd have to lower their prices. They'd be losing Billions every day. They'd have a hugh supply, no demand. That's when you lower prices, to gain customers.

Originally posted by Chaswray
I'm not either, but according to what I've read, a lot if not most of what is used for livestock feed is still available even when the corn is used for ethanol. Only the starch is used in the making of ethanol.

Here's a dissenting view


http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/economics/foodVsFuel.asp

Thanks for that link... it helped me find some good debates on the subject... not to cut and dry by any means 🙂

Originally posted by smw6869
Supply and demand. They'd have to lower their prices. They'd be losing Billions every day. They'd have a hugh supply, no demand. That's when you lower prices, to gain customers.

What day do we start?

Originally posted by lepomis
? I talk to small family farmers everyday... well not Saturdays or Sundays.

True... one farmer will not net the same amount as a multifarm corp., but why does that matter? They are still making more net per unit than they should.

Who says how much porfit they can make as long as they are not gouging the system. Farmers who are selling their grain to fuel pruducers won't be gouging.They are taking what the fuel producers are willing to pay them.The farmers who are still growing food crops will not be able to meet the supply and therefore will raise their prices until you stop buying their food and fine another source out of the US. I guess. If the gov't were not involved maybe the free market system would even everything out. Food prices are going up for sure.

Originally posted by lepomis
What day do we start?

We need a leader. Maybe Michael Moore, or Rosie. I can barely lead myself to the toilet and back.

Originally posted by smw6869
Who says how much porfit they can make as long as they are not gouging the system. Farmers who are selling their grain to fuel pruducers won't be gouging.They are taking what the fuel producers are willing to pay them.The farmers who are still growing food crops will not be able to meet the supply and therefore will raise their prices until you stop buying t ...[text shortened]... ved maybe the free market system would even everything out. Food prices are going up for sure.

I never said that they would be gouging, I was implying that they are going to make money off of our fuel problems. When the oil companies made money from our fuel problems, people were up in arms and wanted them punished for it.

Originally posted by smw6869
We need a leader. Maybe Michael Moore, or Rosie. I can barely lead myself to the toilet and back.

How do you keep it secret enough so that the oil companies dont plan ahead or just sell it to China, who is in need more than the US.

Originally posted by Chaswray


I was raised on a dairy farm, in the mid 60's milk sold for 80 to 90 cents a gallon around here. The dairies paid us .03 cents a gallon. I just don't think it will be the farmer who profits from ethanol!

With the words of empathy most often employed on this debates forum, as long as my Hummer runs, I could give a flying fig as to what a farmer will make. As long as it puts paid to all those hayrahbs i could care less. heeey yaaarh.

Originally posted by smw6869
Who says how much porfit they can make as long as they are not gouging the system. Farmers who are selling their grain to fuel pruducers won't be gouging.They are taking what the fuel producers are willing to pay them.The farmers who are still growing food crops will not be able to meet the supply and therefore will raise their prices until you stop buying t ...[text shortened]... ved maybe the free market system would even everything out. Food prices are going up for sure.

I'm curious as to why you feel that food crop producers would not be able to meet supply? Do you have any idea of the amount of food wasted in America today!? Over a ton and a half of food is wasted every second. So to address your other concern about them raising prices, perhaps if food was a bit more dear in price, we'd waste a bit less? After all Americans don't waste their plasma TVs, their SUVs, their Guicchi loafers or their Rolexs, do they?

Originally posted by lepomis
Thanks for that link... it helped me find some good debates on the subject... not to cut and dry by any means 🙂

You're right it's not cut and dry by any means. Right now, I'm of the belief that the benefits out weigh the risk. One concern I do have is, can enough ethanol be produced to make any dent in our dependence on oil?

I was thinking about this last night why falling asleep and there might be other benefits to higher prices for food produced by corn consumption. The corn syrup and sugars are one of the leading causes of obesity in America today. And higher prices for beef and pork? Well we all know we eat too much of that and need to eat more fish!

So all in all, right now, in my mind anyway, it's a win-win situation😕