Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 01 Feb '12 12:42
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Feb '12 13:39
    Originally posted by Trev33
    Thread 144889
    Why does that have to be a dichotomy?
  3. 01 Feb '12 14:37
    I neither like nor dislike pieces of land.
  4. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    01 Feb '12 15:49
    Europe gets enough help from me through the IMF.
  5. Standard member skipper2666
    Why so serious ????
    14 Feb '12 14:01
    Try this Greek story out, is this the new model for Europe in the coming few years?


    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/--i%E2%80%99ve-stopped-watching-the-news--every-day-feels-like-groundhog-day.html
  6. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    14 Feb '12 14:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by skipper2666
    Try this Greek story out, is this the new model for Europe in the coming few years?


    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/--i%E2%80%99ve-stopped-watching-the-news--every-day-feels-like-groundhog-day.html
    Coming soon to a theater near you.
  7. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    14 Feb '12 21:40
    Originally posted by skipper2666
    Try this Greek story out, is this the new model for Europe in the coming few years?


    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/--i%E2%80%99ve-stopped-watching-the-news--every-day-feels-like-groundhog-day.html
    Well may Americans laugh - you have your cake and eat it there. You see the US is benefitting to a degree from some Keynesian economics, supporting jobs, all against the will of Republicans, while Europe is suffering from a manic insistence on balanced budgets and slashing public spending. Europe is doing what the Republicans want Americans to do and getting the inevitable result. Hopefully for your sakes, O'Bama will save you from your own worst excesses.
  8. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    14 Feb '12 22:05
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Well may Americans laugh - you have your cake and eat it there. You see the US is benefitting to a degree from some Keynesian economics, supporting jobs, all against the will of Republicans, while Europe is suffering from a manic insistence on balanced budgets and slashing public spending. Europe is doing what the Republicans want Americans to do and getti ...[text shortened]... inevitable result. Hopefully for your sakes, O'Bama will save you from your own worst excesses.
    Holy Orwell, Batman!

    Europe isn't suffering from balanced budgets. Europe is suffering from excesses. And Obama isn't saving us from excesses, he's sending us down the same friggin path as Europe. And no one's laughing.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    14 Feb '12 22:12
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Holy Orwell, Batman!

    Europe isn't suffering from balanced budgets. Europe is suffering from excesses. And Obama isn't saving us from excesses, he's sending us down the same friggin path as Europe. And no one's laughing.
    +1

    Greece didn't balance their budget (and I'm sure they still won't, just take a step towards it) until they were forced to by circumstances.

    And as bad as our excesses are, they're still not as bad as Greece's.
  10. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    14 Feb '12 22:39 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    And as bad as our excesses are, they're still not as bad as Greece's.
    But we are still printing our cake and eating it too.

    Edit: Watch Sessions grill Zeints here. It's classic.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2TkI7R9n4&feature=youtu.be
  11. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    15 Feb '12 17:46
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Holy Orwell, Batman!

    Europe isn't suffering from balanced budgets. Europe is suffering from excesses. And Obama isn't saving us from excesses, he's sending us down the same friggin path as Europe. And no one's laughing.
    Rubbish.


    Two things sank the European economy. One was the failure to regulate banking. The other was the collapse of tax revenues when the banking sector failed. It was not a result of excessive public spending. Reducing public spending, furthermore, will not regenerate tax revenues - it is a self destructive cycle. Spending falls, tax revenue falls, spending has to fall again.

    Even then, when public spending is cut (obviously it has to be controlled) then what goes and what is retained? The belief across Europe is that the wealthy retain their advantages while the vulnerable are demonised. Spending is not falling to zero - but social welfare spending is heading that way in many important areas that ought to be protected. That is not about lack of public money - it is about priorities.

    Greece, Italy and Ireland have specific and different problems. Greece and Italy certainly need to modernise their systems of taxation and public spending. Each has a bizarre history and a weak democratic system. Ireland was suckered into promising to guarantee the incompetent investments of corrupt and under-regulated banks with taxpayers' money, sinking an underlying sound economy with the poisonous excess of criminal cowboy capitalism. While it was the corrupt Irish Government that refused to control the excess of its financial sector, it was not Irish money or Irish capitalists who had billions to gamble with in their banks. It was British, American and other corporate tax dodgers. Similarly, German banks in particular bankrolled crazy spending in Greece and now want their "investments" back, when any responsible bank would never have provided Greece with the level of credit it received. Irresponsible lending by poorly regulated banks. That is what is wrong and an under regulated free market is not the source of a remedy.
  12. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    16 Feb '12 23:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Spending falls, tax revenue falls, spending has to fall again.
    Wait wait wait wait -- you're already making things too complicated for American conservatives to understand. You did it the moment you extrapolated to consequences more than one move ahead in Economic Chess. There are no differential equations in Conservative Economic Theory, only arithmetic and basic algebra. ANY conservative in the U.S. will tell you that when you cut taxes, revenue goes up, and when you cut spending, revenue again goes up. The only way revenue can go down, they'll say, is by increasing taxes on the top 1% by any amount -- even 1%. They'll tell you in crayon and macaroni art that slashing education, letting the remaining manufacturing base go to rot, and subsidizing corporate jets is the surest path to prosperity.