Originally posted by sh76I must take issue with your statement that "personal experience is essentially irrelevant." If you had spent 12-13 years in the public school system instead of your private school, and had to deal with the apathetic teachers, low moral, low standards, lack of security, gangs, beatings, and lack of accountability as millions of other American kids had to (myself included) I guarentee you your views in this subject would be very different. There are some things you simply cannot learn be reading about it. I now begin to see where you get your views. It is from an isolated, and aloof enviornment that has little first hand knowledge of the real world. 😏
I did not attend a public school. But anecdotal evidence and personal experience is essentially irrelevant in assessing a system that processes scores of millions of people.
In any case, the US public school system is not a homogeneous system. There are thousands of districts that vary greatly in quality and funding.
We're talking about the products of the system on the whole, not something any one person can experience.
Originally posted by bill718So, not only do you insist on drawing conclusions about all public schools from one person's experience, but you accuse me of being (or growing up in) an "isolated, aloof environment" and of having " little first hand knowledge of the real world" based on the sole piece of information that I did not attend public school. You have no idea what kind of private school I attended, nor even whether it was a good school; yet you feel secure enough to draw that conclusion.
I must take issue with your statement that "personal experience is essentially irrelevant." If you had spent 12-13 years in the public school system instead of your private school, and had to deal with the apathetic teachers, low moral, low standards, lack of security, gangs, beatings, and lack of accountability as millions of other American kids had to (mys ...[text shortened]... an isolated, and aloof enviornment that has little first hand knowledge of the real world. 😏
The one thing I will agree with you on is that your public school did fail you in that it failed to teach you the rules of logic and statistics and to determine the level of evidence necessary to draw a conclusion.
Originally posted by sh76Your post is nothing more than a smokescreen. The fact remains, if you did not attend public school, you can't claim to know what it's like. If you can't comprehend this simple truth, then it is you who needs to check his logic and statistics.😏
So, not only do you insist on drawing conclusions about all public schools from one person's experience, but you accuse me of being (or growing up in) an "isolated, aloof environment" and of having " little first hand knowledge of the real world" based on the sole piece of information that I did not attend public school. You have no idea what kind of private sc ...[text shortened]... logic and statistics and to determine the level of evidence necessary to draw a conclusion.
Originally posted by bill718This thread is not about knowing what public schools are "like." It is about the statistical evidence as to the effectiveness of that system. As you already knew, I never claimed to "know what it's like" in public school. Your post is nothing more than an irrelevant attempt to deflect the topic away from your lost argument.
Your post is nothing more than a smokescreen. The fact remains, if you did not attend public school, you can't claim to know what it's like. If you can't comprehend this simple truth, then it is you who needs to check his logic and statistics.😏
But, now that you mention it, I am in favor of scrapping the whole public school system entirely and replacing it with a government funded voucher system; kind of like the single payer healthcare system in Canada that liberals love so much. I guess, based on your experiences, you'll support me on that one, huh?
I attended a public school system - and by and large, I would say that it was relatively well-run. It was far from perfect - certain teachers were apathetic, small-minded, too lenient, too strict etc. But other teachers were absolutely outstanding, inspirational, and forward-thinking. There were certain issues that were handled very poorly, but other issues were handled well. The architecture was generally awful, but the the structure was safe. There were the occasional fights, and the bathrooms were usually filled with cigarette (and other?) smoke - but I don't recall any problems with "gangs".
The problem is that everyone has had personal experience with exactly one K-12 school system (perhaps two or more if you moved a lot, or switched between a public and private school). In addition, everyone went to school during a particular time in the past, making it very hard to evaluate how things are being done currently.
It would seem to be impossible to draw any kind of broad conclusions about the quality of education in America based only one your own personal experiences. Regardling your own experience, the best you can do is to assume (usually quite erroneously) that your own schooling was relatively "typical" of what took place (and takes place now) in most schools.