22 Mar 07
Originally posted by RedmikeI dont think Solomon himself could give a judgement on this one that would keep everyone happy. If as some of his detractors claim the prosthetic limbs are longer than his natural limbs were and as such give him a longer gate which advantages him over every stride, then you would feel that maybe regardless of his obvious physical impairment being a double amputee the technology that allows him to run advantages him to the extent that over 400 meters as the article pointed out "No able-bodied Scot on two legs has run as fast since 2003, and this time[a time of 46.56 seconds (400m)] would have won the Scottish championships 20 times in the past 21 years.
Interesting story here. Looks like the athletic authorities are trying to ban this athlete because his prosthetic legs give him an unfair advantage.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/headlines/display.var.1276730.0.0.php
It seems churlish to comment but the whole idea of a paralympian having the capacity to outshine able bodied athletes sort of makes a mockery of the notion of paralympians being a group of athletes with special needs. Now that he wants to compete in ordinary athletics hoping to represent South Africa at the World championships, you would have to ask the question, considering this guy holds world records for 100 to 400 meters in para-athletic events, where is the rest of the field that he usually competes against? Is the best of the rest in his field usually a clump of runners maybe 10 to 20% off his pace? If so and by the look of his results he makes ordinary able bodied runners look ordinary his prosthetic limbs must be giving him an immense advantage, that gives him an unfair advantage.
As ridiculous as it sounds the only way forward would be for the authorities to work out a way to handicap his performance such that he started behind the field or ran the same distance but with a delayed start.
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by kmax87Maybe the way forward is that paralympians actually overtake 'able-bodied' athletes, and that we allow this to happen?
I dont think Solomon himself could give a judgement on this one that would keep everyone happy. If as some of his detractors claim the prosthetic limbs are longer than his natural limbs were and as such give him a longer gate which advantages him over every stride, then you would feel that maybe regardless of his obvious physical impairment being a double amp ...[text shortened]... rmance such that he started behind the field or ran the same distance but with a delayed start.
That we have the bionic olympics (6 million dollars apiece?), and the unassisted olympics?
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by kmax87Or he could get new prosthetic limbs of the proper length.
As ridiculous as it sounds the only way forward would be for the authorities to work out a way to handicap his performance such that he started behind the field or ran the same distance but with a delayed start.
22 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by RedmikeYou know that English scientist who developed a chip which could be
Maybe the way forward is that paralympians actually overtake 'able-bodied' athletes, and that we allow this to happen?
That we have the bionic olympics (6 million dollars apiece?), and the unassisted olympics?
operated into his wrist, then received nerve signals from the brain and
passed them on to the his hand and an external robot hand, so that
when the scientist closed his fist, the robot fist also closed? The idea
being that when we for some reason lose our hands and/or feet, artificial
ones can be operated in their place receiving nerve signals from the
brain and responding properly.
I'm guessing in the future we'll have issues with people arguing whether
or not cyborgs should be allowed in olympics or not. Now, if the cyborg
implants gives the receiver extra powers, such as the ability to transfer
energy through their pinky fingers and the like, they shouldn't be allowed
to participate, but otherwise it's fine by me.
What was the question again?
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by RedmikeWell if you are going to argue that able bodied athletes are already assisted by the best drug technology that money can buy then I suppose your call for a bionic Olympics vs a natural Olympics could mean a whole swag of athletes who currently skirt the regulations with chemical enhancements could compete with the best of the mechanically assisted athletes on an open basis such that the best r&d team wins.
Maybe the way forward is that paralympians actually overtake 'able-bodied' athletes, and that we allow this to happen?
That we have the bionic olympics (6 million dollars apiece?), and the unassisted olympics?
Where does mechanical assistance end? If someone without any limbs and much nervous damage through a herculean effort of rehab fights their way back but with the assistance of a motorized chair, at what point would their participation be deemed inappropriate? What if it could be shown that the chair required an inordinate amount of mental concentration on the part of the athlete to send the right trained impulses down the electro/nervous interface of the chairs servo mechanics just to keep the chair tracking right and keep it following the right path on the track. Would our appreciation of the difficulty involved in that person controlling their transportation augmentation device blind us to the reality that they had an obvious advantage.
For sure this is a logical extreme of the argument but you do appreciate the point don't you?
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by stockenI think what I'm trying to say is that paralympics has, until now at least, been seen as the poor cousin of the olympics. For poor unfortunates who've lost limbs or whatever.
You know that English scientist who developed a chip which could be
operated into his wrist, then received nerve signals from the brain and
passed them on to the his hand and an external robot hand, so that
when the scientist closed his fist, the robot fist also closed? The idea
being that when we for some reason lose our hands and/or feet, artificia ...[text shortened]... be allowed
to participate, but otherwise it's fine by me.
What was the question again?
This looks like it might be the start of people who'd previously have competed only in the paralympics being more than capable of competing in the 'able-bodied' olympics.
Should we do anything about this? If we do nothing, where does it stop?
There is, of course, a chess angle to all this. How long until it is possible to have a chip with fritz15, opening databases and endgame tablebases implanted into a human brain?
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by kmax87I appreaciate the point, and that's partly what I'm interested in - if we think it is ok for this guy to compete, where does it stop?
Well if you are going to argue that able bodied athletes are already assisted by the best drug technology that money can buy then I suppose your call for a bionic Olympics vs a natural Olympics could mean a whole swag of athletes who currently skirt the regulations with chemical enhancements could compete with the best of the mechanically assisted athletes on ...[text shortened]...
For sure this is a logical extreme of the argument but you do appreciate the point don't you?
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by stockenNot really - they just know that his prosthetic legs are 8 feet long, and they're assuming that his real legs are likely to have been shorter than that.
I'm guessing that if they figure his prosthetic legs are longer than his real
legs would have been, they also know what length his real legs would have
had.
22 Mar 07
3 edits
Originally posted by RedmikeThen take the likely length of his legs as measured off people of the same
Not really - they just know that his prosthetic legs are 8 feet long, and they're assuming that his real legs are likely to have been shorter than that.
upper body length and use that.
Addition: If the "likely" length is one within an interval, then you can't
say his legs are too long if it's within that interval, as you wouldn't know
then.
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by stockenBut that's the point.
Then take the likely length of his legs as measured off people of the same
upper body length and use that.
[b]Addition: If the "likely" length is one within an interval, then you can't
say his legs are too long if it's within that interval, as you wouldn't know
then.[/b]
What do we do if the athlete insists on keeping his extended prosthetic legs?
Do we prevent him competing?