I would argue that life is a mix of fate & free will.
If I let fate rule my life, then I could sit in the local park expecting fate to feed, clothe and house me - after all, it is all predetermined, so why should I bother doing anything? In reality, this is nonsense. I may receive people's pity/charity and be given the bare minimum, but almost certainly I will never attain the standard of living I would hope to achieve.
Therefore, I look for a job, attend interviews, turn up to work each day and collect my monthly pay. You could argue that I am fated to get the job I end up with, but I had to make the initial conscious decision to actually look.
From experience, I know that sometimes fate/luck/karma/whatever impacts on my life. For instance, I never used to visit a particular club, but on the one occassion I decided to I met my future wife. Free will took me there, something else ensured we would both be there and actually meet (maybe fate had been trying to get us to bump into one another for months, but our own free will had taken us in other directions).
Originally posted by KellyJayIf you think about it practically yes. You walk down a road of course the end of the road is predetermined.
If we choose the path we are on, does this mean the end of our path was predestined once we reach the end of it?
Life's journey is a little bit more complicated, though the answer is the same. Any one road you choose to travel will have a predetermined destination, but we dont typically choose one road nor do we tend to stay on it.
For example I've decided to become a hairdresser, that path will eventually lead to me to becoming either a hairdressor or not (it's a predetermined, but unknown destination). Halfway through my hairdresser training I'm offered a lucrative job in my former profession as a car mechanic.
I can now either choose to stay on the path I am on (which will now have a slightly different destination because of this choice, even if my choice is to continue on the same path), or I can quit and take the offer sending me in a completely different direction.
Essentially, every moment of our lives our free will is changing our fate, thus free will and fate are not exclusive concepts, but in fact co-existent concepts.
MÅ¥HÅRM
I don't find free will or fate to be useful concepts without further specification.
When we talk about free will, what is the will free from? If it were completely independent, it would not be affected by anything in the universe, and would be called 'blind will'. So it seems that 'free will' is the concept that our will is not simply a combination of wordly influences, but contains an essential kernel which is not of this world, which then gets moulded partly, but not entirely, by the world. For example, a Christian may believe that this kernel explains why some people choose to follow God and others don't. I see no reason to believe in the existence of this essential will.
I can think of two forms of causation that might be called 'fate': determinism and fatalism. The difference is that fatalism is top-down (eg: you're going to be President one day - the details will sort themselves out) whereas determinism is bottom-up (the particles within the planets will keep experiencing a gravitational attraction to those in the Sun, attraction causes acceleration, so the planets will keep revolving around the Sun). There is no way to know if we are living in a deterministic universe or not, as we could never directly observe the rules by which it would operate, merely their execution; likewise, even in a non-fatalistic universe events might with hindsight be ascribed to fate. However, I find the evidence for deterministic forces acting in our universe (eg gravity) more convincing than for fatalistic ones (eg karma).
The Presbyterian religion believes in predestination: that God has chosen your path and everything has been decided long ago. I suppose for some people that is comforting.
Does God control every moment of life on earth, or has God created the world and then let us do as we will. This seems to make sense when you look at the damage that we have done to ourselves and the earth.
Originally posted by elvendreamgirlIf God created a deterministic universe, then every moment of life on Earth is determined - the future is as fixed as the past - and yet people could follow their will, within reason (it is clear that we do not live in a world where people can do anything they want, eg we can't fly unaided). The question is where does the will come from. If it's all generated by electrochemical impulses in the brain, then it's as deterministic or otherwise as the laws of physics. In a deterministic world there is no compulsion to do anything, yet it is certain to happen anyway, because of all the events leading inevitably to it.
Does God control every moment of life on earth, or has God created the world and then let us do as we will.
Originally posted by MayharmOur paths may be more complicated, yet the old rule is still the same. If you do not change your ways you will go where you’re headed. This is true with or without fate as part of the discussion is it not? I used the word path when talking about life, because it seems closer to the way of things. With religion and God thrown in the mix, we have things like who are you following? Do we really have the ability to make a choice? If we have the ability to make choices as free moral agents, are their limits? If our lives get caught up in drugs, porn, or any number of things that seem to take over people's lives, are they still free if they are addicted? How is free will defined? People bound to external things like drugs can we call them free? People bound by the need to be liked, the fear of others, the need for control, and so on can we call them free? How is free will defined? I imagine fate is defined by the lack of choice in matters, yet if I’m the one making the choices to put myself on a path, or to which leader I am following, is fate still not part of the equation even with my ability to make a choice? Since I’m going to be heading where I choose to go are not both fate and free will coming into play?
If you think about it practically yes. You walk down a road of course the end of the road is predetermined.
Life's journey is a little bit more complicated, though the answer is the same. Any one road you choose to travel will have a predetermined destination, but we dont typically choose one road nor do we tend to stay on it.
For example I've ...[text shortened]... thus free will and fate are not exclusive concepts, but in fact co-existent concepts.
MÅ¥HÅRM
Originally posted by elvendreamgirlI would wonder why God chooses to say He was going to judge us, if he made all of our choices for us. I would disagree with that position. I would say that the paths of life are before us, we pick the where’s and how’s we are going to live, that takes us where we are going. Either we are moving with God or continually away from Him.
The Presbyterian religion believes in predestination: that God has chosen your path and everything has been decided long ago. I suppose for some people that is comforting.
Does God control every moment of life on earth, or has God created the world and then let us do as we will. This seems to make sense when you look at the damage that we have done to ourselves and the earth.