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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    23 Mar '11 05:33 / 2 edits
    Lord help us. You can't make up this stuff up. If there were ever something that
    might give my nature to want to protect stupidity-aka free "speech"-pause, this
    would probably be about as close as you could get, right up there with the
    Westborough Baptist Church's picketing.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-03-21-quran-burning-florida_N.htm?csp=hf

    The controversial Florida pastor who halted plans to burn a Quran on the 9/11
    anniversary last year oversaw the burning of the Islamic holy book on Sunday
    after it was found "guilty" during a "trial" at his church.

    Pastor Terry Jones acted as a judge in a mock trial that ended with burning a
    Quran on Sunday at his Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida.

    "We had a court process," said Pastor Terry Jones, who acted as judge, in a phone
    interview. "We tried to set it up as fair as possible, which you can imagine, of
    course, is very difficult."

    Jones said about 30 people attended the mock trial at his Dove World Outreach
    Center in Gainesville.

    Jones considered the "International Judge the Quran Day" to be a fairer way of
    addressing the Islamic holy book, and denied breaking earlier promises not to
    burn a Quran.

    If the jury had reached a different conclusion, Jones said he would have issued an
    apology for his accusations that the Quran promotes violence.

    "We still don't feel that we broke our word — that was in relationship to
    International Burn a Quran Day," he said, referring to his previous plan to burn a
    pile of Qurans on the 9/11 anniversary to protest plans for an Islamic community
    center near Ground Zero. "We would not establish another International Burn a
    Quran Day."

    Last year's aborted event provoked criticism from U.S. religious leaders, violent
    protests abroad and pressure from President Obama and Secretary of Defense
    Robert Gates before Jones called it off.

    After a six-hour trial on Sunday that featured a Christian convert from Islam as a
    prosecuting attorney and a Dallas imam as a defense lawyer, a jury of 12 church
    members and volunteers made the judgment, Jones said.

    He said the punishment — burning the book after it had been soaked in kerosene
    for an hour — was determined from four choices on his organization's Facebook
    page. He said "several hundred" were polled and voted for burning over
    shredding, drowning and facing a firing squad.

    Jones considered the burning — which was conducted by another pastor since
    Jones was serving as the judge — a one-time event.

    "That is not our intention, to run around America burning Qurans," he said.

    Jones has launched a new organization, Stand Up America, and plans to protest
    the Quran, Shariah law and "radical Islam," and has scheduled an April event in
    front of an Islamic center in Dearborn, Mich.

    Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations,
    declined to comment at length about Jones' trial.

    "Terry Jones had his 15 minutes of fame and we're not going to help him get
    another few minutes," he said.
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Mar '11 05:54
    Every bit as daft and malicious as bible burning. But as long as they are burning their own property, what can you do?
  3. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    23 Mar '11 06:22
    What was the book actually found guilty of?
  4. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    23 Mar '11 06:40 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    What was the book actually found guilty of?
    Arson?

    One of the UK governments brighter moves recently was not to let this guy into the country. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12231832). Good mustache though.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Mar '11 06:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    One of the UK governments brighter moves recently was not to let this guy into the country.
    Fair enough I suppose. Use the discretionary filter system that visas and passports provide. Not really sure I'd do it. And if he were - say - an E.U. citizen with the right to travel to the U.K. with permission, I would certainly not support moves to bar his entry into the country.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Mar '11 06:57
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    What was the book actually found guilty of?
    Getting wasted in public.
  7. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    23 Mar '11 06:59
    It's good to know that a responsible adult oversaw the book burning and not some crazy kids.
  8. 23 Mar '11 09:15
    Dove World Outreach Center ? Someone messed up naming this thing.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Mar '11 09:20
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    One of the UK governments brighter moves recently was not to let this guy into the country.
    I'll try that again: if he were - say - an E.U. citizen with the right to travel to the U.K. without needing permission, I would certainly not support moves to bar his entry into the country.
  10. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    23 Mar '11 09:40
    Originally posted by FMF
    I'll try that again: if he were - say - an E.U. citizen with the right to travel to the U.K. [b]without needing permission, I would certainly not support moves to bar his entry into the country.[/b]
    Ok, we'll make a note of that.

    Can't have people traveling from the US to UK the way people can travel from Germany to France, that would be...I don't know...kinda...unacceptable...
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    23 Mar '11 09:45
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Ok, we'll make a note of that.

    Can't have people traveling from the US to UK the way people can travel from Germany to France, that would be...I don't know...kinda...unacceptable...
    The E.U. is a passport free zone for E.U. passport holders. I personally have no objection to people travelling from the US to UK the way people can travel from Germany to France. But as things stand, U.S. citizens and U.K. citizens have to have visas in order to travel to each others countries, as far as I know.
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    23 Mar '11 11:41
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Lord help us. You can't make up this stuff up. If there were ever something that
    might give my nature to want to protect stupidity-aka free "speech"-pause, this
    would probably be about as close as you could get, right up there with the
    Westborough Baptist Church's picketing.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-03-21-quran-burning-florida_N. ...[text shortened]... 're not going to help him get
    another few minutes," he said.[/i]
    Does he have to give back his new Hyundai?

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/nj_car_dealer_brad_benson_to_g.html
  13. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    23 Mar '11 11:46
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Ok, we'll make a note of that.

    Can't have people traveling from the US to UK the way people can travel from Germany to France, that would be...I don't know...kinda...unacceptable...
    UK nationals need a visa to go the other way. In his case the problem is that there was a fairly hefty chance of a public order problem as a result of his presence, and things he was likely to do. The easiest way of preventing that was barring his entry.
  14. 23 Mar '11 12:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b] I personally have no objection to people travelling from the US to UK the way people can travel from Germany to France.
    I think what they are waiting for is government run health care in the US before they can declare the US part of the EU.
  15. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    23 Mar '11 21:02
    Originally posted by FMF
    The E.U. is a passport free zone for E.U. passport holders. I personally have no objection to people travelling from the US to UK the way people can travel from Germany to France. But as things stand, U.S. citizens and U.K. citizens have to have visas in order to travel to each others countries, as far as I know.
    Well, welly, well, if he has to bend over for permission from the immigration bureaurats then that's a good point to punish him for the way he expressed himself. Just the difference between a tick and a cross, clamping down on freedom of expression almost with out getting your hands dirty...almost.