Originally posted by wedgehead2i dunno ... have we ever seen socialism or communism not accompanied by fascism? ...
If your employer pays a fair wage, how come he makes so much money? Economics dictate that profit is made when you sell something at more than you got for- e.g. your labour.
The right (aprt from facists) doesn't generally clamp down on personal freedoms- suggesting the Republicans are either a rare exception, or facists- make up your own mind!
By the way- capitalism is a right wing ideology, as is facism, as opposed to socialism or communism.
Originally posted by zeeblebotCuba isn't a facist state. I wouldn't have said that the USSR was, although you could argue that for periods under Stalin it was.
i dunno ... have we ever seen socialism or communism not accompanied by fascism? ...
China in recent years, with its "market socialism" is bordering on it.
Are you talking about fascism from an economic, social or political direction? Also, fascism isn't in it a clearly defined theory- Nazism is a splinter form of it, whereas Mussolini's Italy was probably the best example of it.
Originally posted by wedgehead2how can you argue that Cuba is not a fascist state?
Cuba isn't a facist state. I wouldn't have said that the USSR was, although you could argue that for periods under Stalin it was.
China in recent years, with its "market socialism" is bordering on it.
Are you talking about fascism from an economic, social or political direction? Also, fascism isn't in it a clearly defined theory- Nazism is a splinter form of it, whereas Mussolini's Italy was probably the best example of it.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism
"fascism
A political regime based on strong centralized government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual. "
Originally posted by zeeblebotThats only part of an accurate definition. Communism never puts religion ahead of the individual.
how can you argue that Cuba is not a fascist state?
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism
"fascism
A political regime based on strong centralized government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual. "
Here's a better one:
An extreme form of nationalism that played on fears of communism and rejected individual freedom, liberal individualism, democracy, and limitations on the state.
Are you telling me the most anti-communist doctrine possible is communist?
How can you argue Cuba is a fascist state? No mass genocide, no expansionism, and anti-religious.
Originally posted by wedgehead2Communist countries do, when it's their own state religion, i.e., communism itself.
Thats only part of an accurate definition. Communism never puts religion ahead of the individual.
Here's a better one:
An extreme form of nationalism that played on fears of communism and rejected individual freedom, liberal individualism, democracy, and limitations on the state.
Are you telling me the most anti-communist doctrine possible is com ...[text shortened]... w can you argue Cuba is a fascist state? No mass genocide, no expansionism, and anti-religious.
actually, are there any true communist countries, or did they all turn out to be fascist?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
"Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing collectivistic ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism. He wrote in The Political and Social Doctrine of Fascism:
Anti-individualistic, the fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal will of man as a historic entity. ... The fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. ... Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number. ... We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State. (a version of the text is here).
"
Originally posted by wedgehead2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
Thats only part of an accurate definition. Communism never puts religion ahead of the individual.
Here's a better one:
An extreme form of nationalism that played on fears of communism and rejected individual freedom, liberal individualism, democracy, and limitations on the state.
Are you telling me the most anti-communist doctrine possible is com ...[text shortened]... w can you argue Cuba is a fascist state? No mass genocide, no expansionism, and anti-religious.
Originally posted by zeeblebotI thought that one of the most significant features of fascism was an embrace of some form of religion or cult of the leader. Usually in the form of an embrace of nationalism and a promotion of paternalism. I would have thought that the targeting of a particular group within as the other would be a definite feature.
how can you argue that Cuba is not a fascist state?
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism
"fascism
A political regime based on strong centralized government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual. "
The problem with all of this is that the lines between fascist and communist rule become very blurred, the commonality shared being totalitarian rule.
Originally posted by zeeblebot"Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing collectivistic ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism."
Communist countries do, when it's their own state religion, i.e., communism itself.
actually, are there any true communist countries, or did they all turn out to be fascist?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
"Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing collectivistic ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individuali ...[text shortened]... e' century, and therefore the century of the State. (a version of the text is here).
"
Being opposed to socialism hardly makes it socialism!
🙄
Originally posted by zeeblebotLike I said, No mass genocide, no expansionism, and anti-religious! It is repressive from a western liberal view- but the communistic view of freedom is atotally different thing entirely- far more to do with economic than political freedom- the opposite of western democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
Originally posted by kmax87They lack both lack a political democracy, but their ideologies are very different.
I thought that one of the most significant features of fascism was an embrace of some form of religion or cult of the leader. Usually in the form of an embrace of nationalism and a promotion of paternalism. I would have thought that the targeting of a particular group within as the other would be a definite feature.
The problem with all of this is that the ...[text shortened]... fascist and communist rule become very blurred, the commonality shared being totalitarian rule.
As far as flat tax goes I think a gst type tax (which contrary to all the prophets of doom has worked very well in Australia) seems to me to be one of the better ways of ensuring fairness in the tax regime.
The tax dept gives a lot of incentives for those who back the system giving many concessions to any who would invest their money. In many ways it could be argued that if only veryone actually paid the taxes they were meant to most countries would have more than enough resources to keep the right sort of infrastructure in place and allow governments to adequately plan and provide for their citizenries future.
The truth however is that the more that the wealthy re-invest their money they usually have access to tax concessions which lessen their tax burden effectively being subsidized in their private enterprise by the public purse.
By and large I would agree that seeing as we are in a capitalist system it would be in the systems best interests for this to continue. However if too much of the tax burden is placed at the feet of ordinary workers and the public purse suffers, the as the infrastructure starts to crumble under the weight of underfunding a fix rate goods and services tax can be a great solution as it makes the user pay for their privileges.
It has worked well in Oz and as a result of its success it has seen marginal tax rates fall.
Originally posted by kmax87A GST tax isn't fair, as it menas that the poor have to pay a very high proprtion of their small income to just survive. This is a tax policy taht benefits the rich while making the poor suffer. Its not "fair"!
As far as flat tax goes I think a gst type tax (which contrary to all the prophets of doom has worked very well in Australia) seems to me to be one of the better ways of ensuring fairness in the tax regime.
The tax dept gives a lot of incentives for those who back the system giving many concessions to any who would invest their money. In many ways it could ...[text shortened]...
It has worked well in Oz and as a result of its success it has seen marginal tax rates fall.
Originally posted by wedgehead2Hooray, everyone simply loves it in Cuba. For an extreme vacation, many Cubans pile onto makeshift rafts and risk their lives trying to illegally enter that disgusting capitalist pig state called the U.S.
Cuba isn't a facist state. I wouldn't have said that the USSR was, although you could argue that for periods under Stalin it was.
China in recent years, with its "market socialism" is bordering on it.
Are you talking about fascism from an economic, social or political direction? Also, fascism isn't in it a clearly defined theory- Nazism is a splinter form of it, whereas Mussolini's Italy was probably the best example of it.
How many people have risked their lives in the past 25 years trying to get "into" a socialist state?
Anybody?
Anybody?
Anybody?
ZERO.
Originally posted by monster truckThey get a bad press. Lots of people go there on holiday thiugh- but not while risking their lives...
Hooray, everyone simply loves it in Cuba. For an extreme vacation, many Cubans pile onto makeshift rafts and risk their lives trying to illegally enter that disgusting capitalist pig state called the U.S.
How many people have risked their lives in the past 25 years trying to get "into" a socialist state?
Anybody?
Anybody?
Anybody?
ZERO.
Anyway- look at everyone trying to get into the supposedly socialist state of China- though thats businesses trying to exploit labour, rather than for any ideological reason.