Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberfinnegan
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    22 Sep '17 09:57
    http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-government-protocol-florence-speech/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/florence-theresa-may-un-speech-brexit-no-eu-boris-johnson-single-market-a7960141.html

    What weird behaviour by the British PM, fresh from her mind-numbingly tedious, dull droning performance at the UN, to set up a supposedly major speech on Brexit in an out of the way venue that nobody wants to attend, without even bothering to secure the appropriate invitations and hospitality from the host country or even the local mayor. This will be like her election speeches in Cornish or Scottish factories attended by a handful of Tory supporters and a disconsolate bunch of involuntary watchers whose jobs depend on behaving with due deference.

    Still we have the BBC on hand to misrepresent the whole shebang. https://twitter.com/bbclaurak

    I like the remark: "Italian politics is no stranger to bitter domestic conflict, yet embryonic Italian governing coalitions have not yet hired hotel function halls in Leeds or Reading in which to make their announcements to the world."
  2. Standard membervivify
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    22 Sep '17 14:25
    Florence Mayhem sounds like a badass action heroine.
  3. Standard membervivify
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    22 Sep '17 14:311 edit
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-government-protocol-florence-speech/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/florence-theresa-may-un-speech-brexit-no-eu-boris-johnson-single-market-a7960141.html

    What weird behaviour by the British PM, fresh from her mind-numbingly tedious, dull droning performance at the UN, to set up a supposedly major speech on Brex ...[text shortened]... hotel function halls in Leeds or Reading in which to make their announcements to the world."[/i]
    One has to wonder, had she not gambled on that snap election, if she'd be a lot more respected now. It seems that was the major turning point for her reputation. Getting people on her side, even for something as simple as showing up to her speech, seems to have plummeted since then.
  4. Zugzwang
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    22 Sep '17 18:26
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Florence Mayhem sounds like a badass action heroine.
    Does Florence Mayhem have a date with Rocket Man?
  5. Standard memberfinnegan
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    23 Sep '17 09:353 edits
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Does Florence Mayhem have a date with Rocket Man?
    Now that's just the sort of creative, imaginative trade deal that being in the European Union has made so difficult. At last you are catching a glimpse of the new. global reach of Brexit.

    Now what does Britain have to offer: I can quickly suggest a magical prospect for arms deals, access to the world's most corrupt money laundering facilities and a fine range of city centre mansions for rich refugees from foreign tax courts (not paying tax is the new conscientious objection).

    And the great thing about Britian is we want nothing in return. That's why we will be so ready to offer an America First trade deal with Alabama.
  6. Subscriberdivegeester
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    23 Sep '17 10:00
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Now that's just the sort of creative, imaginative trade deal that being in the European Union has made so difficult. At last you are catching a glimpse of the new. global reach of Brexit.

    Now what does Britain have to offer: I can quickly suggest a magical prospect for arms deals, access to the world's most corrupt money laundering facilities and a f ...[text shortened]... ing in return. That's why we will be so ready to offer an America First trade deal with Alabama.
    Good grief you are one miserable, misanthropic, pin-holed perspective, extreme left-wing, Lenin cap-wearing dude.
  7. Standard memberfinnegan
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    23 Sep '17 10:325 edits
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Good grief you are one miserable, misanthropic, pin-holed perspective, extreme left-wing, Lenin cap-wearing dude.
    Well you are right - there is just the one of me. Pleased to meet you.

    If disagreeing with Mayhem earns that llist of epitaphs, should we assume that agreeing with her earns the converse - multiple, cheerful, loving, broad minded, [extreme right wing - which opposite applies here?], fashionably and expensively over dressed woman [or maybe Trump cap wearing?]?

    Remind me how that latter list embraces her mistreatment of migrants, the UN report on the mistreatment of the disabled by her government, her determination to wreck the Human Rights Act for heaven's sake...
  8. Unknown Territories
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    23 Sep '17 11:26
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-government-protocol-florence-speech/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/florence-theresa-may-un-speech-brexit-no-eu-boris-johnson-single-market-a7960141.html

    What weird behaviour by the British PM, fresh from her mind-numbingly tedious, dull droning performance at the UN, to set up a supposedly major speech on Brex ...[text shortened]... hotel function halls in Leeds or Reading in which to make their announcements to the world."[/i]
    You're suggesting some form of conspiracy on the part of BBC?
    Pishaw.
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    24 Sep '17 15:50
    uOriginally posted by @finnegan
    Well you are right - there is just the one of me. Pleased to meet you.

    If disagreeing with Mayhem earns that list of epitaphs, should we assume that agreeing with her earns the converse - multiple, cheerful, loving, broad-minded, [extreme right wing - which opposite applies here?], fashionably and expensively overdressed woman [or maybe Trump cap weari ...[text shortened]... disabled by her government, her determination to wreck the Human Rights Act for heaven's sake...
    You sound like a real radical (fundamentalist?), yet you are clearly an intelligent person. You should not waste yourself with your hatred of Mrs.May/Conservative party and instead, voice concern with your usual erudition about what is wrong with Democracy: the election of Trump and the Brexit vote, two modern disasters with huge consequences to the world.

    I hope you are not voting for the Socialist Party in the next election, vide:
    https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21729431-labour-track-rule-britain-who-rules-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-britains-most?cid1=cust/ednew/n/bl/n/20170921n/owned/n/n/nwl/n/n/a/66094/n
  10. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Sep '17 16:201 edit
    Originally posted by @ptriple42
    You sound like a real radical (fundamentalist?), yet you are clearly an intelligent person. You should not waste yourself with your hatred of Mrs.May/Conservative party and instead, voice concern with your usual erudition about what is wrong with Democracy: the election of Trump and the Brexit vote, two modern disasters with huge consequences to the world ...[text shortened]... r-party-jeremy-corbyn-britains-most?cid1=cust/ednew/n/bl/n/20170921n/owned/n/n/nwl/n/n/a/66094/n
    Maybe when you clarify what you think is wrong with democracy and perhaps give us a clue about your preferred alternative, then we can establish which of us is the more radical.

    There is nothing wasteful in hating Tories.

    I'm not a subscriber to the Economist and so unable to read your link.
  11. Zugzwang
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    24 Sep '17 19:55
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Does Florence Mayhem have a date with Rocket Man?
    Reportedly, Kim Jong-un attended school in Switzerland, but there's no known evidence
    that he ever went out on any dates with girls there.

    Syngman Rhee (the first President--de facto right-wing dictator--of the Republic of Korea)
    was married to an Austrian woman (his future secretary) whom he met in Switzerland.
    She became the First Lady of the Republic of Korea.
  12. Subscriberdivegeester
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    24 Sep '17 20:02
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Maybe when you clarify what you think is wrong with democracy and perhaps give us a clue about your preferred alternative, then we can establish which of us is the more radical.
    Democracy is leading the UK out of the political and economic tyranny of the EU. Welcome to the new world Finn 😀
  13. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Sep '17 23:00
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Democracy is leading the UK out of the political and economic tyranny of the EU. Welcome to the new world Finn 😀
    Perhaps you need to address this insightful endorsement of democracy to the person who expressed unhappiness with democracy, ptriple42, to whom my own post was addressed.

    I am not aware that democracy is limited to one moment in a voting booth, after which we can leave everything in the autocratic hands of the current gang of government ministers, who are free to do whatever they want under the cover of their supposed mandate. Some of us see democracy as a participation sport, in which government is held to account and the particular privileges of parliament are protected against a grasping and patently corrupt executive.

    Should we assume you are content to see democracy manipulated and undermined by wealthy interests with access to powerful tools of persuasion, exercised dishonestly as part of an undisclosed agenda? Or would you agree that part of democracy is the right of the public to honest and fair information, including ongoing honest discussion of new evidence as it becomes available?

    Should we assume your concept of sovereignty includes having government ministers overtly in league with the Heritage Foundation and other American right wing bodies with a libertarian agenda, committed to the destruction of accountable democratic institutions? If so, I don't suppose you will mind too much about the number of MPs paid serious sums of cash by Israel to endorse their apartheid regime and associated right wing and militaristic agenda.

    Yes the new world, in which public services are converted into toll booths collecting cash for the rich, while nation states including England are corruptly bought out by corporations too strong for fragmented state govenments to control or regulate. That is why the EU must be broken up, you realise. Not for some abstraction like "sovereignty" which you don't even understand, but because it is too strong for the corporations to manipulate.
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    25 Sep '17 14:43
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Maybe when you clarify what you think is wrong with democracy and perhaps give us a clue about your preferred alternative, then we can establish which of us is the more radical.

    There is nothing wasteful in hating Tories.

    I'm not a subscriber to the Economist and so unable to read your link.
    "All leaders must compromise with their parties. But it is rare for a leader’s personal views to contrast so strongly with those in his manifesto. Rarer still is the company Mr Corbyn keeps. Andrew Fisher, the main author of the manifesto, has previously argued for the nationalisation of all banks; Andrew Murray, a former Communist Party official who advised Mr Corbyn during the election, has defended the regime in North Korea. You can imagine how, surrounded by such people, Mr Corbyn would instinctively line up against America in a geopolitical emergency, and how he would see a financial crisis as Act One in the collapse of capitalism." (from the mentioned source)

    This is one of the reasons I hoped you'd not vote for the Socialist party.

    As for what's wrong with democracy:
    "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"
    - which is demonstrated by the two modern disasters I mentioned.

    "Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (you must know these 2 quotes are from your own Winston Churchill)
    - like him, I don't know of a better one; perhaps some form of technocracy.

    But I was hoping that you, a very political and erudite person, might suggest some possible alternatives to the very defective modern democracies, instead of wasting yourself in small politics...
  15. Standard memberfinnegan
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    25 Sep '17 15:181 edit
    Originally posted by @ptriple42
    "All leaders must compromise with their parties. But it is rare for a leader’s personal views to contrast so strongly with those in his manifesto. Rarer still is the company Mr Corbyn keeps. Andrew Fisher, the main author of the manifesto, has previously argued for the nationalisation of all banks; Andrew Murray, a former Communist Party official who advi ...[text shortened]... tives to the very defective modern democracies, instead of wasting yourself in small politics...
    Why is nationalisation of banks so interinsically bad? Were you asleep in 2008 when they were saved by the state because otherwise every citizen would have lost access to their own wages and savings? It was not the collapse of Capitalism but it was the collapse of the financial system and it is fascinating to watch the neoliberal approach to its consequences. Do you think the Republican / Trumpian policy of further deregulation is going to be helpful?

    I defend North Korea in a different thread. Much depends on what you imagine that implies. Have a read. Are you about to defend Trump's approach to diplomacy?

    I do not instinctively line up against the USA, because my politics is not instinctive, it is based on intensive reading, but I have set out many criticisms of US fascism on this forum. Browse my posting history.

    Corbyn and Labour did not provoke the Brexit crisis but Corbyn is doing his best to navigate a way through it. He has a very tough hand to play on this one.

    You will have to justify your assertion that socialism is "small politics." As I see it, the past four decaades have seen the domination of politics by a neoliberal ideology, which is now progressing towards fascism in no uncertain terms, and the remedy will not be to maintain that ideology further, but to recognise the need for a class based alternative. Politics without class awareness is emasculated and self defeating.

    Wasting myself? I disagree. Tell me you have a cunning plan, Baldrick.
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