Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Jul '16 18:212 edits
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-kicked-off-plane-american-airlines-racial-discrimination-cair-uncomfortable-a7147311.html

    "Muslim Passenger Kicked Off American Airlines Flight After Attendant Announces: 'I'll be Watching You':
    The flight attendant stated the man's name and seat number several times,
    but did not make announcements about any other passengers."
    --Rachael Revesz

    "Mohamed Ahmed Radwan had boarded a plane in Charlotte, North Carolina
    and the flight attendant...said 'Mohamed Ahmed, Seat 25-A: I will be watching you.'
    The employee made no announcement about any other passenger.
    Mr Radwan asked the employee why she had made the announcments.
    She reportedly responded that he was being 'too sensitive'. ...
    He was told he must leave the plane as he had made the first air stewardess 'uncomfortable'."

    The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) has filed a complaint
    on Mohamed Ahmed Radwan's behalf to the Department of Transportation.
    According to the complaint, he had to book a significantly more expensive flight.

    It's wrong that American Airlines evidently would allow one flight attendant (who's not
    qualified as a 'security expert' ) to express her own bigotry or paranoia and act,
    in effect, as the final authority in deciding whether a Muslim should be allowed to fly.
  2. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    21 Jul '16 21:24
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It's wrong that American Airlines evidently would allow one flight attendant (who's not
    qualified as a 'security expert' ) to express her own bigotry or paranoia and act,
    in effect, as the final authority in deciding whether a Muslim should be allowed to fly.
    I suspect there was more to the story that we don't know, but it does seem like a clear case of racial discrimination. I do think that if an airline sells a ticket then refuses to serve the customer, they should pay for alternative transportation at a minimum unless they can prove the cancellation was the customers fault. Making the flight attendant uncomfortable should not qualify.
    I do think flight attendants do and should have the right to ask for passengers to be removed, but they need to justify it. Certain passengers such as those under the influence of alcohol can be a danger to a flight.
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Jul '16 21:59
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I suspect there was more to the story that we don't know, but it does seem like a clear case of racial discrimination. I do think that if an airline sells a ticket then refuses to serve the customer, they should pay for alternative transportation at a minimum unless they can prove the cancellation was the customers fault. Making the flight attendant uncom ...[text shortened]... it. Certain passengers such as those under the influence of alcohol can be a danger to a flight.
    First of all, every passenger *already* had passed through security checks (including a
    metal detector or a possible physical search) by the TSA. Given the reality of 'profiling',
    one would assume that a man with an obvious Muslim name such as 'Mohamed' would
    receive at least as much scrutiny or interrogation as any other passenger on that flight.

    My point is that a flight attendant (who's untrained in assessing threats) is *not* the only line of defense.
    Mohamed Ahmed Radwan *already had been cleared* by the professionals in charge of security.
    So the flight attendant should have accepted their judgment that he was *not* a threat to security.
    But she did not, repeatedly calling unwarranted attention on her own to this passenger as a threat.
    In my view, she overstepped the boundary of what she was supposed to be doing.

    I believe that she would have had a sufficient reason to ask for his removal *if* the
    passenger had overstepped his boundary by, for instance, sexually harassing her,
    but there's no known evidence that he did that or that she made that complaint.
    Many women work around men who make them feel uncomfortable (sometimes by being
    of an unwelcome racial appearance), but the women are not justified in calling for the
    men to be removed unless the men have said or done something overtly inappropriate.
  4. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    21 Jul '16 22:19
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    First of all, every passenger *already* had passed through security checks (including a
    metal detector or a possible physical search) by the TSA. Given the reality of 'profiling',
    one would assume that a man with an obvious Muslim name such as 'Mohamed' would
    receive at least as much scrutiny or interrogation as any other passenger on that flight.
    We all know that such security measure are mostly just for show.

    So the flight attendant should have accepted their judgment that he was *not* a threat to security.
    I disagree. I believe that if a flight attendant, or even a passenger, believes a passenger is a possible threat to security they should speak up and do something about it. They should of course be able to justify their belief.
    It is a fact that terrorist and other malicious people can get through other security checks and on to aircraft. To suggest that anyone there is automatically 'cleared' is ridiculous.

    But she did not, repeatedly calling unwarranted attention on her own to this passenger as a threat.
    I believe that her calling attention to the passenger and rudely addressing him was a serious error on her part. Such behaviour would not stop a terrorist and is not the correct way to deal with a genuine security threat.

    In my view, she overstepped the boundary of what she was supposed to be doing.
    In my view, she has the right to be concerned about security threat or undesirable passengers. However, she handled it completely inappropriately.

    I believe that she would have had a sufficient reason to ask for his removal *if* the
    passenger had overstepped his boundary by, for instance, sexually harassing her,
    but there's no known evidence that he did that or that she made that complaint.

    It must be noted that his removal was requested after he talked to several crew members. We are not privy to the details of his behaviour at this point. He could have been very upset and behaving very upset and his removal may have been justified on those grounds. The flight attendants actions that caused him to be upset are what may not have been justified. It is actually possible that she initially thought she was joking but he took it the wrong way. Cultural clashes of that nature are not uncommon.
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    21 Jul '16 23:004 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    We all know that such security measure are mostly just for show.

    [b]So the flight attendant should have accepted their judgment that he was *not* a threat to security.

    I disagree. I believe that if a flight attendant, or even a passenger, believes a passenger is a possible threat to security they should speak up and do something about it. They sho ...[text shortened]... t she was joking but he took it the wrong way. Cultural clashes of that nature are not uncommon.[/b]
    First of all, if this flight attendant had been genuinely concerned about this passenger
    being a threat to security, she could have arranged to have him watched *discreetly*,
    *without warning* him that he was under any special observation. Instead, she chose to
    broadcast, in effect, that he was a suspected (or probable) threat to security, identifying
    him by his name and seat number, which not only subjected him to embarrassment but
    could also have put him at risk of being attacked by an unnecessarily panicked passenger.
    In the USA, Sikhs have been murdered by bigots who misidentified them as Muslims.

    Now this flight attendant might sincerely believe that all Muslim men are dangerous or
    even that no Muslim should be allowed to fly aboard airliners in the USA. (This kind of
    anti-Muslim bigotry seems to be widely held in this forum.) But I believe that it's important
    for enough rules to be put into place to prevent bigots from freely exercising their bigotry
    upon the pretext of 'security'. Given the popularity of anti-Muslim bigotry in the USA,
    if every passenger were allowed to object seriously to any Muslim being allowed to fly
    aboard an airliner, then air travel would become impracticable for Muslims in the USA.

    How would Twhitehead feel if this flight attendant had broadcast that a gay man (a prominent
    LGBT activist) was aboard and had identified him by his name and seat number, in effect,
    warning all concerned parents to keep their children away from him?
  6. Standard membershavixmironline
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56264
    22 Jul '16 05:15
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-kicked-off-plane-american-airlines-racial-discrimination-cair-uncomfortable-a7147311.html

    "Muslim Passenger Kicked Off American Airlines Flight After Attendant Announces: 'I'll be Watching You':
    The flight attendant stated the man's name and seat number several times,
    but did not make announcemen ...[text shortened]... d act,
    in effect, as the final authority in deciding whether a Muslim should be allowed to fly.
    You never know what they're hiding under that burka!
    Or kilt...
Back to Top