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  1. Joined
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    26 Oct '15 22:462 edits
    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/inscriptions/the-gabriel-stone-on-display/

    This article, discussing the inscription “Gabriel’s Revelation,” was originally published on Dr. James Tabor’s popular Taborblog, a site that discusses and reports on “‘All things biblical’ from the Hebrew Bible to Early Christianity in the Roman World and Beyond.” Bible History Daily republished the article with consent of the author. Visit Taborblog today, or scroll down to read a brief bio of James Tabor below.

    Many of my regular blog readers know all about the so-called “Gabriel stone” and its intriguing references, as argued by Prof. Israel Knohl, to raising a corpse “after three days.” I have several blog posts dealing with this topic that you can access here: “Suffering Messiahs and Resurrection after Three Days.”



    The stone itself is currently on display in Jerusalem at the Israel Museum:


    JERUSALEM (AP) — An ancient limestone tablet covered with a mysterious Hebrew text that features the archangel Gabriel is at the center of a new exhibit in Jerusalem, even as scholars continue to argue about what it means.

    The so-called Gabriel Stone, a meter (three-foot)-tall tablet said to have been found 13 years ago on the banks of the Dead Sea, features 87 lines of an unknown prophetic text dated as early as the first century BC, at the time of the Second Jewish Temple.

    Scholars see it as a portal into the religious ideas circulating in the Holy Land in the era when was Jesus was born. Its form is also unique — it is ink written on stone, not carved — and no other such religious text has been found in the region.

    Curators at the Israel Museum, where the first exhibit dedicated to the stone is opening Wednesday, say it is the most important document found in the area since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.



    What is not so well known is that Professor Knohl has changed his mind about the transliteration, and thus the translation, of the key line 80 in the text that he had previously argued talked about resurrection of the dead after three days:


    By three days–live, I Gabriel command you, prince of princes, the dung of rocky crevices.”

    In a paper given at a 2009 conference at Rice University on the Gabriel Stone, now published in the conference volume as, “The Apocalyptic Dimensions of the Gabriel Revelation in Their Historical Context,” Knohl says he was mistaken in his original reading.[1] Knohl still maintains that the text was “composed shortly after 4 B.C.E.” by “followers of the messianic leader Simon, who was killed in Transjordan in 4 B.C.E.,” which is where the stone was probably found. He continues to see it as an example of what he calls “catastrophic messianism” where a slain Messiah gives a new/holy covenant to Israel. What he now doubts is that the text speaks of “making the dead live after three days.” Following the readings of Yardeni and Elizur he accepts as the translation for line 80:


    In three days the sign will be (given). I am Gabriel



    The critical word that Knohl once read as a verb, “to make live” (חאיה) now is read as the noun “sign” (האות). On the whole, however, his overall interpretation is the same and if he is correct the text continues to have great significance for our understanding of “messianism” among late 2nd Temple Jewish groups.

    Though I greatly respect Knohl’s integrity in so freely changing his mind I am not convinced that this alternative reading is necessarily correct. Unfortunately the text is faded at this point, and even after subjecting it to a battery of scientific tests designed to enhance its clarity, it may be that we will never know with certainty how it should be read.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Read the original English publication of “Gabriel’s Revelation” along with Israel Knohl’s BAR article that made scholars around the world reconsider links between ancient Jewish and Christian messianism in the brand-new FREE eBook Gabriel’s Revelation.
  2. Joined
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    26 Oct '15 22:51
    I think that this pretty much blows away the theory that Paul created the Messiah story of Jesus rising from the dead that I often hear.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    27 Oct '15 12:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think that this pretty much blows away the theory that Paul created the Messiah story of Jesus rising from the dead that I often hear.
    So what, it is still a 100% man made story. There was no resurrection much as the billion Christians wish it so. There is a book that makes a LOT of sense to me, 'Jesus lived in India' where the idea there is he did not die on the cross, but (note in the bible he was annointed with HEALING herbs) and he recovered, cut down way early, and decided it might not be the best thing to hang around and get killed a bit more violently this time, so took off on the silk road where there are monasteries started by unknown characters and the writer of this book thinks it was Jesus, then kept going and died eventually in Kashmir, where there is a grave with half moon marks on the feet carved in relief on the stone. Kashmir is one place where one tends not to go because of the constant war going on there but one day someone will be able to excavate that grave and see if it is the body of Jesus. The only problem with that, to the relief of Christians I am sure, is the grave is in soggy ground and the body inside will probably be proven to be a pile of dust by now. So you can breath easy in your fantasies.
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    27 Oct '15 23:49
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So what, it is still a 100% man made story. There was no resurrection much as the billion Christians wish it so. There is a book that makes a LOT of sense to me, 'Jesus lived in India' where the idea there is he did not die on the cross, but (note in the bible he was annointed with HEALING herbs) and he recovered, cut down way early, and decided it might no ...[text shortened]... e will probably be proven to be a pile of dust by now. So you can breath easy in your fantasies.
    Believe what you want, but this pretty much drives a nail in the coffin of those who claimed Paul created the story of the resurrected Messiah.
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    28 Oct '15 12:55
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think that this pretty much blows away the theory that Paul created the Messiah story of Jesus rising from the dead that I often hear.
    The entire Old Testament already blows that story out of the water from the word "go" - which is why that's not what the discussion is about. The discussion is not about there being or coming a Messiah; just about everybody is agreed that the OT prophetises that there will be. The discussion is about (as I believe) Jesus being that Messiah, or (as the theory claims) Paul making up specifically His claims to the title. Nobody alleges that Paul made up the Messiah story in the first place, only that he made up the evidence that Jesus fulfills the story.

    Since this stone only proves that yes, indeed, the OT talks about a Messiah (which nobody disputes), not that yes, indeed, the OT was right and Jesus was that Messiah (which the Pauline theory does dispute), it proves nothing either way.


    Also, this thread doesn't belong here. It should be moved to the Spirituality Forum.
  6. Subscribersonhouse
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    28 Oct '15 13:11
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    The entire Old Testament already blows that story out of the water from the word "go" - which is why that's not what the discussion is about. The discussion is not about there being or coming a Messiah; just about everybody is agreed that the OT prophetises that there will be. The discussion is about (as I believe) Jesus being that Messiah ...[text shortened]... r way.


    Also, this thread doesn't belong here. It should be moved to the Spirituality Forum.
    Since they are all just stories written down it is more like a present day fantasy series. Not one word proves any kind of supernatural influence.

    Don't forget, humans are creative, have been creative, will be creative and the amount of stories about various deities now number in the millions from all around the world.

    The telling thing about these stories is one religion getting pitted against another.

    That right there tells us pretty clearly the whole thing is man made otherwise a real deity would make one religion for the whole planet, maybe vary the actors but the gist would be the same and for sure there would not be an alleged deity saying 'kill those infidels, rape their women, steal their children'. That is a strictly human trait and NO deity would EVER say those incredibly cruel words that are also clearly written in both the bible and the Quran.
  7. Joined
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    29 Oct '15 02:34
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    [
    Also, this thread doesn't belong here. It should be moved to the Spirituality Forum.[/b]
    Well that is where you are wrong. This thread is about history and an archeological find. It dismisses certain theories regarding the evolution of religious thought. As such, it most definitely belongs here.
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