Entertaining debate on Radio 2 today about the government suggestion for parents to take their children to work while teachers are on strike. Most people (not everyone) thought the suggestion was idiotic. The best call was from someone who said she works in a prison with convicted paedophiles. She thought on balance her daughter would be staying away from her workplace tomorrow.
More seriously, the debate about what damage public sector workers will do to the economy by striking rather brought home (nobody would admit it though) the stupidity of arguing that they are not productive and not contributing to the country's economy. In a complex society and complex economy, many different factors have to work together, some in more front facing roles, others in more subtle supporting roles. The allocation of roles to public or private sectors is often arbitrary and the boundaries blurred, but the roles have to be filled one way or another. As a simple example, Ford argued that American car makers had a cost disadvantage of $400 per car (many years ago so the figure's way out of date and presumably far more today) compared to British car makers purely because of the difference between the cost of health insurance in the States and the NHS in Britain.
Comparing pay and conditions again is not often comparing like for like. Teachers may be losing all their status (in the early Seventies their salary was comparable to a GP - nothing like that today!) but teaching is still a skilled white collar profession, requiring a good education and additional qualifications. There are severe shortages in many subject areas and a large proportion of new teachers leave the profession within a few years, so market forces have hardly demonstrated that they are overpaid or priviliged. My wife was a teacher, but my daughter as a newly qualified solicitor for one year earns more than my wife was doing after over 30 years teaching while her feather bedded pension of around £9k (for which she contributed 6% of her salary from the start) is not in itself a huge justification for the decades of stress in her career.
It's time people stopped squabbling over the trivial differences in their wages and started noticing that Cameron and his pals have been getting something for nothing since the day they were born. This is purely a strategy of divide and rule - slagging off groups of workers as greedy or whatever in order to pick them off without opposition - and the rulers are protecting their own wealth and privilige, not our quality of life. When we all earn less, get lower pensions and work under more stressful and uncertain conditions, we will not be better off. Wake up - we are being ripped off by the rich.
Originally posted by Proper KnobI'm sure Cameron would give the thumbs up to such a display of entrepreneurial zeal even as he laid his head on the block. A blade's eye view though would yield nothing more than close-ups of fat necks, unpalatable.
We could also charge to watch the resulting 'show', that would generate some cash for the kitty. We could have a 'blades eye view' camera.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageEach job has it's demands, and pressures. Each has its exceptional side. If one doesn't like his employment, in a free society he can change.
Whoever considers teaching a cushy job has never taught. Without those holidays, teach'd go fecking mad.
About a year an half ago, I spoke to a young man who had just quit teaching in a disciplinary school in Boston, MA. His complaint was that even in this "disciplinary" setting, teachers had little to nothing with which to "discipline" misbehavior. He was going to a sales job, where most of his income was going to be based on commissions. After a couple of dry years he might be ready to suck it up and take the frustration of dealing with Boston's delinquents, with a steady paycheck.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThats really believable, i met an African dude who came to my house, although he was
Recently one of the salesmen at work reminisced, if that's the right word, about the suffering he incurred, as a freshly expatriated Zimbabwean Shona man, during his first job as a door-to-door salesman of electricity in a periurban zone of Scotland. It was winter and the distances between doors was not inconsiderable ...
not selling electricity but doing a survey for the government, poor guy was shivering
, so i had him in and took his survey and gave him a coffee and doughnut, he was very
appreciative.
Originally posted by invigorateActually my friend, i dont care how much you get paid, as far as i am concerned, its
3 years ago I was self employed. I know where you are coming from - there are advantages and disadvantages to each way of life.
I will be forced to start a few business activities as a sideline to top up my salary soon anyway.
However, I must go now and try to work out how to explain the Euro crisis to a bunch of sleepy 17 year olds in an exciting hour lesson tomorrow morning.
not enough.
Originally posted by finnegan"Wake up - we are being ripped off by the rich."
Entertaining debate on Radio 2 today about the government suggestion for parents to take their children to work while teachers are on strike. Most people (not everyone) thought the suggestion was idiotic. The best call was from someone who said she works in a prison with convicted paedophiles. She thought on balance her daughter would be staying away from h ...[text shortened]... certain conditions, we will not be better off. Wake up - we are being ripped off by the rich.
I don't know about overseas, but here in the US, I am richer because of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. I can't think of a single rich person who has made me poorer.
I have had cars stolen, my home burglarized, my lawnmower ripped off, and I've been held up at gun point. It was never a rich guy who ripped me off.
Originally posted by normbenignIf you were to define "being ripped off" as getting assaulted with an uncooked vegetable, then you could, I suppose, claim never to have been "ripped off" by anyone, rich or poor.
I have had cars stolen, my home burglarized, my lawnmower ripped off, and I've been held up at gun point. It was never a rich guy who ripped me off.
Originally posted by normbenignTell that to the families who lost everything to Enron. In fact, tell that to the world after the credit crisis.
"Wake up - we are being ripped off by the rich."
I don't know about overseas, but here in the US, I am richer because of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. I can't think of a single rich person who has made me poorer.
I have had cars stolen, my home burglarized, my lawnmower ripped off, and I've been held up at gun point. It was never a rich guy who ripped me off.
My guess is that white collar crime is probably equal to or perhaps greater than blue collar crime. The reason they might be higher is that such people are usually held in high regard in society and probably not as suseptible to being caught for obvious reasons.
Of course, if I were a lefty I would try to show that white collar crime is not a concern. After all, they all seem to think that distributing wealth to people is the answer to society's ills. Simply put, having riches is obviously no cure to our ills.
Originally posted by whodeyWell. How different it is here in Indonesia where concern for "white collar crime" and corruption is front and centre among politicians and commentators on the left of the spectrum. Do you have any evidence of commentators on the left of the political spectrum in the U.S. trying "to show that white collar crime is not a concern"?
Of course, if I were a lefty I would try to show that white collar crime is not a concern.
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Originally posted by FMFOooo, ooo!!! I know this one! NO! He has nothing but the weird sounds (and smells) that follow him everywhere.
Well. How different it is here in Indonesia where concern for "white collar crime" and corruption is front and centre among politicians and commentators on the left of the spectrum. Do you have any evidence of commentators on the left of the political spectrum in the U.S. trying "to show that white collar crime is not a concern"?
On the other hand Mitch McConnell told me that kind of crazy talk is "CLASS WARFARE." (So, I don't do it anymore. I just wait around near norm's bridge to steal his lawnmowers.)
Originally posted by normbenignYes as long as you identify each crime as the actions of an individual you are impervious to reason because it is common sense that individuals do the crime. If putting criminals in prison solved the problem, - well - it would be solved already maybe? Excellent investment for Californians to spend more on prisons than education.
"Wake up - we are being ripped off by the rich."
I don't know about overseas, but here in the US, I am richer because of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. I can't think of a single rich person who has made me poorer.
I have had cars stolen, my home burglarized, my lawnmower ripped off, and I've been held up at gun point. It was never a rich guy who ripped me off.
However, if you look at crime levels in different countries, and different states in the US, you will find a very strong correlation with inequality. Less inequality = less crime. Same goes for health and other measures of social well being.
There are lots of ways to reduce crime. Simply spending something to improve the landscaping around town reduces crime. Improving public transport reduces crime. As long as you think it is all about morals I am afraid you fail to come up with sensible ways to reduce it. And it is those sensible solutions that are under funded as wealth goes to buy yachts and islands for the super rich.
So it is not a sinlge rich person who makes you poorer - it is the social class of the very rich which sucks wealth out of the productive economy and out of social welfare that makes you poorer, both directly and indirectly.
You even pay more tax because they pay little if any.
Originally posted by FMFI don't know what that has to do with anything. I named several times in life that I was definitely "ripped off". How many times have you found your car missing, or had someone demand all your money while pointing a loaded gun at you?
If you were to define "being ripped off" as getting assaulted with an uncooked vegetable, then you could, I suppose, claim never to have been "ripped off" by anyone, rich or poor.
I can find no rationale for the claim that the rich are ripping us off. If it is the case, it is only with our permission if we continue to buy the stuff that isn't worth the money we spend on it.
Originally posted by whodey"Tell that to the families who lost everything to Enron."
Tell that to the families who lost everything to Enron. In fact, tell that to the world after the credit crisis.
My guess is that white collar crime is probably equal to or perhaps greater than blue collar crime. The reason they might be higher is that such people are usually held in high regard in society and probably not as suseptible to being caught f ...[text shortened]... e is the answer to society's ills. Simply put, having riches is obviously no cure to our ills.
Near as I can tell, everyone involve with Enron, rich or poor lost everything.
As to white collar vs. blue collar crime, that in no way measures the wealth of the perps.
Originally posted by FMFIt isn't a concern if it involves a government agency or quasi government agency doing allegedly good work, such as Fannie and Freddie, or a host of government sponsored green manufacturers like Solyndra.
Well. How different it is here in Indonesia where concern for "white collar crime" and corruption is front and centre among politicians and commentators on the left of the spectrum. Do you have any evidence of commentators on the left of the political spectrum in the U.S. trying "to show that white collar crime is not a concern"?