Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    01 Jun '18 23:544 edits
    "Thar serms to be what [Germaine] Greer and [Andrea] Dworkin want,
    but a real feminist should be better than that."
    --Shallow Blue

    Only someone who's extremely ignorant (like Shallow Blue's ignorant of history)
    of feminism would conflate women as different as Germaine Greer and Andrea Dworkin.

    Given that she died in 2005, I would say that Andrea Dworkin's influence
    upon feminists in 2018 seems to be fading (sarcasm intended) at best.
    Shallow Blue seems ignorant of the reality that Germaine Greer has long
    been strongly criticized by other feminists. In modern feminism, Greer's
    a marginal figure, a relic who still attracts media attention on account of
    her past notoriety, not because feminist take her very seriously as a thinker.

    Recently, Germaine Greer claimed, in effect, the rape is mostly just bad sex.
    She also called for criminal punishments for rape to be reduced.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

    "She [Germaine Greer] suggested that a fitting sentence for the offence
    [rape] might be 200 hours’ community service and perhaps an “r” tattoo
    on the rapist’s hand, arm or cheek."

    "Most rapes don’t involve any injury whatsoever."
    --Germaine Greer

    "Most rape is just lazy, just careless, insensitive. Every time a man rolls
    over on his exhausted wife and insists on enjoying his conjugal rights he
    is raping her. It will never end up in a court of law."
    --Germaine Greer

    “Instead of thinking of rape as a spectacularly violent crime, and some
    rapes are, think about it as non consensual … that is bad sex.
    Sex where there is no communication, no tenderness, no mention of love."
    --Germaine Greer

    "We [women] don’t live in terror of the penis … A man can’t kill you with his penis.”
    --Germaine Greer

    FALSE. In fact, some victims (often girls) have died from their internal
    injuries (profuse bleeding) after being raped (often gang-raped) by men.
    Germaine Greer shows her ignorance.

    Germaine Greer's comments have been widely condemned, including by men (some of
    whom are sexual assault victims themselves).

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/31/germaine-greer-rape-violence-prosecution

    "Germaine Greer’s comments on rape are dangerous and damaging:
    The difficulty of prosecuting rape cases is notorious. The feminist’s
    suggestion that we give up trying is disturbing."
    --Laura Bates

    "When women talk about any kind of misogynistic abuse, three things happen.
    We are told that we should stop making a fuss. We are told that it could be worse.
    We are told that other issues are more serious. At the Hay festival this week,
    Germaine Greer told us all three."

    "She said “most rapes don’t involve any injury whatsoever,” and conflated
    rape with “bad sex … where there is no communication, no tenderness”

    "Ultimately, if Greer is saying we need to take rape less seriously, she needn’t
    worry … society is already doing a pretty great job of that all by itself."
    --Laura Bates

    Here's a reader replying to Laura Bates:
    "Laura Bates...does a good job of exposing how wrong Greer’s opinions
    are, but I wish she, and others who do so, would cease describing Greer as
    a “leading feminist”. She wrote a book a long time ago. She was not and
    has never been a leading figure in the women’s liberation movement –
    we eschewed leaders as a matter of political principle, in fact – and she
    is not a spokesperson for anyone but herself.

    Her comments and attitudes have often been a source of embarrassment,
    which I believe lack depth of understanding or feminist analysis, and
    these latest statements are so crass and ridiculous as to make it a
    matter of debate whether she can really even be called a feminist."
    --Frankie Green (letter to the 'Guardian' )

    Germaine Greer's comments will encourage the sexist men who believe (like rape apologists here)
    that 'most rape is just bad sex' about which women ('The lady doth protest too much' )
    should not complain too much, let alone file criminal charges.
  2. Joined
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    02 Jun '18 00:09
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Thar serms to be what [Germaine] Greer and [Andrea] Dworkin want,
    but a real feminist should be better than that."
    --Shallow Blue

    Only someone who's extremely ignorant (like Shallow Blue's ignorant of history)
    of feminism would conflate women as different as Germaine Greer and Andrea Dworkin.

    Given that she died in 2005, I would say that Andre ...[text shortened]... e lady doth protest too much' )
    should not complain too much, let alone file criminal charges.
    yawn 😴
  3. Joined
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    02 Jun '18 00:12
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    yawn 😴
    I see, the sleepers fallacy argument.

    Well played.
  4. Behind the scenes
    Joined
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    02 Jun '18 00:572 edits
    Originally posted by @mott-the-hoople
    yawn 😴
  5. Behind the scenes
    Joined
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    02 Jun '18 00:59
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Thar serms to be what [Germaine] Greer and [Andrea] Dworkin want,
    but a real feminist should be better than that."
    --Shallow Blue

    Only someone who's extremely ignorant (like Shallow Blue's ignorant of history)
    of feminism would conflate women as different as Germaine Greer and Andrea Dworkin.

    Given that she died in 2005, I would say that Andre ...[text shortened]... e lady doth protest too much' )
    should not complain too much, let alone file criminal charges.
    What can I say Duchess? We live in an imperfect world. Fortunately we have you here to lead us on to the shining path of enlightenment! 😀
  6. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
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    02 Jun '18 01:59
    Originally posted by @mchill
    What can I say Duchess? We live in an imperfect world. Fortunately we have you here to lead us on to the shining path of enlightenment! 😀
    huuuuuh.....oohhhh....night night.

    😴
  7. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
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    02 Jun '18 04:24
    I think Greer’s comments are being taken out of context.

    If there’s violence, you punish the violence.
    And as for rape, she’s widening the definition. Having sex with someone just so he can dump his load generally isn’t considered rape. And she’s saying it is.
  8. Joined
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    02 Jun '18 16:54
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    --Shallow Blue
    Shallow Blue's ignorant
    Shallow Blue seems ignorant
    I'm not playing your little-boy games. If you want to be treated as if you were an adult, first treat others as adults.
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    02 Jun '18 21:491 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    I think Greer’s comments are being taken out of context.

    If there’s violence, you punish the violence.
    And as for rape, she’s widening the definition. Having sex with someone just so he can
    dump his load generally isn’t considered rape. And she’s saying it is.
    Shavixmir has (at best) seriously misunderstood what Germaine Greer said in context.
    Fortunately, most women seem much less confused.

    "I call for Germaine Greer to stop calling herself a feminist. Because she very clearly isn't.
    And the hailing of her as one needs to stop. It should have stopped a long time ago,
    really, but now is certainly a good time to really do it."
    --Tanja Bueltmann (historian at Northumbria University)

    "I think she's [Germaine Greer] trying to sell a book. I know that in order to cut through
    in this day and age you need to say something quite provocative and I guess she has
    done that and we are all talking about it. But I'm not buying her book."
    --Emily Hunt (rape victim and activist on sexual violence)
  10. Joined
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    02 Jun '18 21:57
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    I think Greer’s comments are being taken out of context.

    If there’s violence, you punish the violence.
    And as for rape, she’s widening the definition. Having sex with someone just so he can dump his load generally isn’t considered rape. And she’s saying it is.
    what the hell context can "insisting on enjoying his conjugal rights" be put in to mean anything but the disgusting thought that marital rape doesn't exist?
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    02 Jun '18 23:40
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Thar serms to be what [Germaine] Greer and [Andrea] Dworkin want,
    but a real feminist should be better than that."
    --Shallow Blue

    Only someone who's extremely ignorant (like Shallow Blue's ignorant of history)
    of feminism would conflate women as different as Germaine Greer and Andrea Dworkin.

    Given that she died in 2005, I would say that Andre ...[text shortened]... e lady doth protest too much' )
    should not complain too much, let alone file criminal charges.
    "Most rapes don’t involve any injury whatsoever."
    --Germaine Greer

    https://tendaily.com.au/views/a180531bcu/its-time-for-germaine-greer-to-shut-up-20180531

    "Rape does leave injuries. Common injuries include bruising or scratches. Less common
    injuries include vaginal or anal bleeding, inflammation of the vagina, urinary tract infections,
    uterine fibroids. People can contract sexually transmitted diseases, become pregnant
    against their will. People can die.

    But rape can also leave no physical injuries. It can leave survivors feeling anxious, guilty,
    isolated, or numb. Survivors can experience PTSD, anxiety, depression, eating disorders,
    substance abuse, suicidal thoughts. The reason language has changed from "victims" of sexual
    abuse to "survivors" is that to live through the trauma of sexual violence is to survive it."
    --Alex Bruce-Smith

    Is the victim of a non-sexual assault still called a 'victim' or a 'survivor'?
    My point is that not all feminists agree that 'rape survivor' should be a synonym for 'rape victim'.

    Of course, the more important general point is that Germaine Greer's wrong on rape.
  12. Standard memberlemon lime
    ookookachu
    oLd ScHoOl
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    03 Jun '18 01:022 edits
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Most rapes don’t involve any injury whatsoever."
    --Germaine Greer

    https://tendaily.com.au/views/a180531bcu/its-time-for-germaine-greer-to-shut-up-20180531

    "Rape does leave injuries. Common injuries include bruising or scratches. Less common
    injuries include vaginal or anal bleeding, inflammation of the vagina, urinary tract infections,
    uterine ...[text shortened]... victim'.

    Of course, the more important general point is that Germaine Greer's wrong on rape.
    This all consuming obsession you seem to have with rape (and rapists) has finally convinced me to join the #NOTME movement.
    I will no longer allow myself to be in a position where I find myself alone with an unrelated female, unless my wife or one of my daughters is present.

    There are a lot of men, probably more than you think, who will take speeches about rape from women like you seriously... very seriously.
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