07 Apr 09
Looks like the final steps are being taken for GM (and Chrysler) to file for bankruptcy protection soon. Both US and Canadian govt's announced plans to back the warranties of the two companies and most analysts expect a Bankruptcy filing shortly.
Today, news leaked GM will create 2 companies. One comprising the profitable GM brands, and the second comprising the unprofitable brands.
This seems odd to me but I think this sets the stage for GM to do what Honda and Toyota did. Namely, set up a higher end brand with a different name (Lexus/Toyota, Acura/Honda etc)
I think Chrysler and GM will merge together. They will drop all unprofitiable brands and create a high end (think cadillac) and a low end (think chevrolet/Jeep) brand.
This new company would could compete much better I think.
07 Apr 09
Originally posted by uzlessHad me worried there.
Looks like the final steps are being taken for GM (and Chrysler) to file for bankruptcy protection soon. Both US and Canadian govt's announced plans to back the warranties of the two companies and most analysts expect a Bankruptcy filing shortly.
Today, news leaked GM will create 2 companies. One comprising the profitable GM brands, and the second compris ...[text shortened]... end (think chevrolet/Jeep) brand.
This new company would could compete much better I think.
I thought a Grandmaster was skint.
07 Apr 09
Originally posted by uzlessyes, provided they drop every car that fails to get less than 30 mph on the highway or 27 mph in town.
Looks like the final steps are being taken for GM (and Chrysler) to file for bankruptcy protection soon. Both US and Canadian govt's announced plans to back the warranties of the two companies and most analysts expect a Bankruptcy filing shortly.
Today, news leaked GM will create 2 companies. One comprising the profitable GM brands, and the second compris ...[text shortened]... end (think chevrolet/Jeep) brand.
This new company would could compete much better I think.
if they want to survive, they have to sell cars in my neighborhood, too.
and they don't.
the only cars I see are: honda and acuras/ toyotas and lexuses / nissans and infinities / BMWs and a few Mercedes.
oh, and also quite a few mini-coopers for fun and commuting as a 3rd vehicle.
the only people anywhere near me who own american cars live next door -- a chevy suburban about 8 ft long and a ford suv -- but they're Estonian and don't get Bethesda chic yet.
American vehicles are universally beneath contempt because:
1. they are made like crap and don't perform -- they are expensive to own and maintain and they are put together with spit and chewing gum and look like it; and
2. they look like something that belongs in a trailor park or a low income, high crime area where only the drug dealers drive the high end American cars.
I mean, no one in my world would consider a Cadillac anything but a pimpmobile ...
What are they going to do to change that image?
The last American car I owned was 25 yrs ago -- the first front-wheel drive Oldsmobile mid-sized station wagon -- a disaster, worse than even a Fiat (Fiasco).
I own a Toyota Rav 4 to go to the beach and an Infiniti G 35x, which is the best car I've ever driven bar none. I've owned a Fiat, Fords, GM, Hondas, Acuras, MGBs, everything except a German car or a Volvo.
the toyotas haven't been exciting, but they don't wear out and they cost me nothing to maintain.
The infiniti is a complex machine that works like a dream and handles like the MGB only it is so civilized and comfortable that I can't stop wanting to floor it going around impossible curves.
Buy American? Ha --- as if.
08 Apr 09
3 edits
Originally posted by ScriabinYou do admit that your neighbourhood does not represent the vast majority of Americans I presume.
yes, provided they drop every car that fails to get less than 30 mph on the highway or 27 mph in town.
if they want to survive, they have to sell cars in my neighborhood, too.
and they don't.
the only cars I see are: honda and acuras/ toyotas and lexuses / nissans and infinities / BMWs and a few Mercedes.
oh, and also quite a few mini-coopers f top wanting to floor it going around impossible curves.
Buy American? Ha --- as if.
There is a reason why the Ford F150 was the number one selling vehicle in n. america and it has nothing to do with the special cream BMW applies to the leather seats.
As for competitiveness, Acura has gone in the tank from a quality/fun aspect. Infinity has dropped off the chart with the exception of the g35. Toyota's cars are becoming stale while Lexus is still running strong and is a quality product. BMW and the Merc will always be top notch. Point here is that there is room for a revamped GM/Chrysler with new product in the pipeline. My neighbourhood doesn't have any honda/acura and def no infinity. BMW and Porsche are the standards here. Porsche, now there is a quality product!
Their biggest hurdle is overcoming the stereotype of people who used to drive GM vehicles 10 years ago who still think their vehicles are junk when, in fact, the quality and longevity has improved. They still have to work on the fit and finish...and get rid of the plastic inside the driver's cabin!
GM's image is their biggest obstacle when it comes to attracting customers who consider image an important buying decision.
10 Apr 09
Let's face it, we won't have the big 3 american car companies soon, there's just not a big enough market for:
patriotic cars with potential but checkered reliability history
to allow for 3 major providers.
One big monopoly for such american medicre cars could maintain profitability, especially if the unions are kept in line near international standarts.
2, I don't know, they may survive if they engage in illegal or unenforced collusion, price-setting, and general screwing of their customers.
10 Apr 09
Originally posted by eljefejesus...especially if the unions are kept in line near international standarts.
Let's face it, we won't have the big 3 american car companies soon, there's just not a big enough market for:
patriotic cars with potential but checkered reliability history
to allow for 3 major providers.
One big monopoly for such american medicre cars could maintain profitability, especially if the unions are kept in line near international sta ...[text shortened]... in illegal or unenforced collusion, price-setting, and general screwing of their customers.
What do you mean by this statement?
10 Apr 09
Originally posted by KazetNagorrareliable sources to cite:
Hmm, I'm not sure about that, can you be more specific?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10642724/
"Automobile sales are still strong, but while times are good for some manufacturers, the nation’s two biggest — General Motors and Ford — are in the midst of a massive and agonizing reorganization, hobbled by a shrinking domestic market share, plunging profits, and the high wages and generous health benefits promised to their existing and former workers."
and another source you may prefer for its more liberal take:
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=8785
"Health care raises the price of each GM car by $1,500, complains CEO Rick Wagoner. That figure, bandied about by the media, is unsound for several reasons. The calculation overlooks government subsidies: Tax subsidies for employee-sponsored health-care coverage on active workers exceeded $200 billion in 2006, reports the US Internal Revenue Service.
GM’s own policy analysts divorce themselves from the figure because health-care costs per car vary, depending on which parts, from light bulbs to seat covers, are outsourced.
Besides, with every plant closure, health-care costs per car rise because US firms carry an extra burden of coverage for retired workers. GM covered health care for 1.1 million people in 2005, almost 70 percent of whom were retirees or workers’ family members.
"
10 Apr 09
Originally posted by eljefejesusWell, I was looking for a comparison between US worker rights and say, Germany's. The health care cost point is valid, but that's not really due to the fact that GM pays for health care (after all, they do so as well if there is universal health care, though indirectly), but due to the fact that US health care is so inefficient and expensive. On the other hand, US workers work longer per week and get fewer days off than the German ones. I think the main reason GM is not competitive is its large corporate bureaucracy and poor car design.
reliable sources to cite:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10642724/
"Automobile sales are still strong, but while times are good for some manufacturers, the nation’s two biggest — General Motors and Ford — are in the midst of a massive and agonizing reorganization, hobbled by a shrinking domestic market share, plunging profits, and the high wages and gen ...[text shortened]... lion people in 2005, almost 70 percent of whom were retirees or workers’ family members.
"
10 Apr 09
Most American cars are unreliable. As much as I'd like to buy a domestically made car I can't risk losing a lot of money for auto repairs. Most parts on American cars are made in foreign countries anyway, so I buy Japanese vehicles now.
I think there is an agenda to break the backs of the unions. The CEOs to the big banks get to keep their bonuses while the auto worker loses his benefits. The big bank contract was honored and the little guy's contract is not.
10 Apr 09
Originally posted by eljefejesusUm, explain how GM is going to LOWER their health care costs if they lay off staff and produce fewer vehicles.
reliable sources to cite:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10642724/
"Automobile sales are still strong, but while times are good for some manufacturers, the nation’s two biggest — General Motors and Ford — are in the midst of a massive and agonizing reorganization, hobbled by a shrinking domestic market share, plunging profits, and the high wages and gen ...[text shortened]... lion people in 2005, almost 70 percent of whom were retirees or workers’ family members.
"
They will have less vehicles, have lower income and health care costs per employee will INCREASE when it comes to paying retirees.
The only thing GM can do to reduce their retiree legacy cost is to reduce how much money they pay them. It's that simple.
So what you will end up with is thousands of old people on pensions who will see their pension money drop and/or their medical expenses go higher.
Amazingly, some people think this is a GOOD thing, and worse some people think the retirees actually DESERVE this....what these people forget is that these "benefits" were negotiated when GM had a much higher market share. GM figured they could afford these benefits based on the number of cars they were selling. Now that their marketshare has dropped (due to years of neglect by MANAGEMENT) naturally their cost/vehicle has gone up. Amazingly, people think this $1500 number is crazy and too high and is the fault of too lavish benefits when it never used to be this high when they were sellling more vehicles.
Give me a break. If GM/Ford/Chrysler had made better products, they wouldn't be in this position. Now they turn on their own employees to bail them out.
They will never turn the corner, if every car buyer still believe the now incorrect stereotype from the 80's that N. American cars are junk. They're not. People are just incredibly willing to put down things they have no idea about. If everyone says the same thing, eventually everyone will believe it.
Worse still, people are too concerned with image nowadays. People who have money wouldn't be caught dead in a N. American vehicle. Not because it's a bad car, but because it's considered bad form to buy N. American. I have no idea how these people's noses don't get in their way when they drive.
They only true test for reliability that the average consumer can make is to keep an eye out when you're driving on the highway. Note the brand of the vehicle that has broken down at the side of the road. Keep a tally of import vs domestic. You may be suprised.
10 Apr 09
They only true test for reliability that the average consumer can make is to keep an eye out when you're driving on the highway. Note the brand of the vehicle that has broken down at the side of the road. Keep a tally of import vs domestic. You may be suprised.[/b]You would also have to keep track of the year produced. A 1992 Honda broken down means a lot less than a 2006 Chrysler.
11 Apr 09
Originally posted by KazetNagorraNo government subsidy helps GM at this time though.
Well, I was looking for a comparison between US worker rights and say, Germany's. The health care cost point is valid, but that's not really due to the fact that GM pays for health care (after all, they do so as well if there is universal health care, though indirectly), but due to the fact that US health care is so inefficient and expensive. On the oth ...[text shortened]... the main reason GM is not competitive is its large corporate bureaucracy and poor car design.
I do agree that the inefficient bureaucracy and poor design at GM doesn't help. Coorporations that have been around during better times for US growth are not always as competitive as the newer leaner rivals that new they had to get their competitive games up in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Quality is said to have been pushed in places like Japana by American assitance from people like Deming after World War II. I see a bigger post-world war ii similarity between Japan and Germany -> no large standing milliarties. So who sucks up the engineering talent? The coorporations.