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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 23 Sep '09 03:34
    Recycle government!!
  2. 23 Sep '09 03:35
    Originally posted by whodey
    Recycle government!!
    No way! Throw it away for good and get all new.
  3. 23 Sep '09 03:38
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    No way! Throw it away for good and get all new.
    Hush, I am trying to confuse the left into agreeing with me.
  4. 23 Sep '09 04:04
    Originally posted by whodey
    Hush, I am trying to confuse the left into agreeing with me.
    I tend to agree with you on changing the government.. of course changing it to what?
  5. 23 Sep '09 04:46
    Burn a hippy.
  6. Standard member joneschr
    Some guy
    23 Sep '09 04:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    Recycle government!!
    Cash for clunkers?
  7. 23 Sep '09 10:50
    Originally posted by joneschr
    Cash for clunkers?
    Na, I wouldn't spend a dime on any of them.
  8. 23 Sep '09 12:38
    Originally posted by whodey
    Recycle government!!
    Sounds like a call for term limits. This idea was all the rage in 1994 - maybe it's time to bring the idea back.

    but experience has shown that the only way this can work is if it becomes a constitutional amendment.
  9. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    23 Sep '09 14:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Recycle government!!
    Yes bring back the republicans. Man, things were great when they ran the country wasn't it!


    Exploding deficits, wars with people who didn't attack you, tax cuts for the top 10% of the population, cut backs in health, education, and environmental spending, the removal of most of your freedom by electronic monitoring.

    Yep, bring back the good old days. At least we'll keep a few mexicans from getting dental check ups.
  10. 23 Sep '09 14:44
    Yeesh. I still don't understand why Environmentalism has became a left/right thing.
  11. 23 Sep '09 14:48
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Yeesh. I still don't understand why Environmentalism has became a left/right thing.
    it's ironic that conservatives rarely talk much about conservation
  12. 23 Sep '09 15:33 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by darvlay
    Yeesh. I still don't understand why Environmentalism has became a left/right thing.
    Put simply, environmental concerns are being used as a weapon. For example, the whole push for cap and trade is an example. The whole issue regarding global warming is a secondary one, as far as I am concerned. Case in point, is the fact that there is no sane energy policy in the works. These bafoons complain about being in Iraq, but do nothing to free us of our dependence on foriegn oil. In addition, they don't champion nuclear energy, which is carbon free. All they do is talk about "clean coal", as if that makes any sense. So their answer is to pass the greatest tax in US history via cap and trade as we travel down the same road. Of course, the pollution wiill only be outsourced, like all the rest of the jobs have been in the US. So not only will the US lose jobs, the pollution will continue unabated in foreing lands.


    And lastly, the whole science behind these issues is in itself controversial. The term "junk science" is often thrown around when discussing things like global warming. After all, the earth heats up and cools on its own, so how are we to distinguish what effect we are having? In addition, if it is "heating" things up, how are we to acurately predict where we are headed?

    So why are they pushing cap and trade? Tax revenue. Its like crack cocaine to these guys. Of course, if they were really concenred about the enviornment, would they live jet set lives and own myraids of mansions? If you ask me, none of them care, they just want our money.
  13. 23 Sep '09 15:40
    Originally posted by uzless
    Yes bring back the republicans. Man, things were great when they ran the country wasn't it!


    Exploding deficits, wars with people who didn't attack you, tax cuts for the top 10% of the population, cut backs in health, education, and environmental spending, the removal of most of your freedom by electronic monitoring.

    Yep, bring back the good old days. At least we'll keep a few mexicans from getting dental check ups.
    You raise a good point. The two party system leaves us with no one to run to with our problems because they both are headed down the same path.
  14. 23 Sep '09 15:43 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    it's ironic that conservatives rarely talk much about conservation
    I think conservation is interpreted as an oppurtunity of increased government control. For example, I have heard with the new cap and trade that the EPA will come give you a visit when you put your house on the market. They will then tell you what needs to be done to make it energy efficient and expect you to "fix things" before being able to sell it. I have also heard of plans to put GPS systems in cars to tax you on milage rather than just the cost of fueling up. And the list goes on and on. Conservatives have NO issue with voluntary measures towards conservation, rather, we just oppose a nanny state bordering on facism.
  15. 23 Sep '09 16:43 / 1 edit
    the main problem with voluntary conservation measures is that it's hard to tell what measures are the most effective - and what measures might even be counter-productive.

    For example, at Whole Foods, they no longer offer plastic bags because they aren't biodegradable. But I worry that using paper bags means we're cutting down more trees. How do I know which of these concerns is more important? Perhaps neither is that important.

    Or should I buy an electric car? This would help to reduce the amount of gasoline I use -- but it would also increase the amount of electricity I use. Perhaps that would be even worse.

    If there was an easy way of knowing how much or how little damage something was doing to the environment, it would make it easier for consumers to avoid "dirty" products and buy "clean" ones. Businesses would then respond by offering more "cleaner" products.

    Conservatives prefer approaches that make use of the free market - so I present the following proposal. What can be done to make information about how "clean" a product is more available to consumers?

    It could involve something like the standardized nutrition labels we currently have. It allows me to quickly see how much sugar, fat, salt, fiber, nutrients, and calories a given food product has - so I can assess how healthy it is. This was much harder to do before those labels were required for everything.