GOP debate number whatever

Highlights from TPM, yes, a liberal source.

57th Debate Straight Blogging

Okay, we're here for the official "economy" debate hosted by CNBC.

8:04 PM: Not sure the 'putting stuff in the caboose' metaphor is one that works for Herman Cain at this point.

8:07 PM: Romney seems focused on shooting down the non-existent push for the US to create a new TARP program for Italian debt.

8:08 PM: How did they let Jim Cramer be involved in moderating a debate?

8:11 PM: I'm actually surprised how incoherent the candidates are in response to the situation in Italy.

8:13 PM: What Romney just said about the auto bailout really didn't make sense. Too incoherent. It was a managed bankruptcy which is what Mitt wanted to do all along only it was a government bankruptcy which was awful. It's like the threading the needle on health care reform.

8:21 PM: Cain: The American people deserve better than for you to answer this question ... I think Cain just said that for every woman who says he harassed them there are thousands of women who say he didn't harass them. Hmmm.

8:25 PM: There's something odd and kind of off-kilter about this debate. And I've had a hard time putting my finger on it. And it's funny because you'd think that in a time of terrible economic plight, the out of power party would go to town on economics. But I think what it is is that the candidates know that they need to be able to get their facts right on macro-economics. And they're just not getting questions they feel they can dig into.

— Josh Marshall

From DKOS

4:58 PM PT: Welcome to our debate liveblog. You as excited as I am to see these clowns perform for their circus?

4:59 PM PT: By the way, earlier today I asked CNBC if they were streaming the debate live on the web. They said they weren't. #bigfail!

5:01 PM PT: Oh jeez. They apparently have the same production crew as CNN. Theme music, splashy intro. And apparently the CNBC ticker will be running throughout the debate, at least on CNBC HD. Very annoying.

5:04 PM PT: The debate is coming at us from Rochester, Michigan. John Harwood and Maria Bartiromo are co-moderating. Each candidate is standing at a podium. From left to right: Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Herman Cain, Rick Perry, Ron Paul, and some random shlub (former Obama aide Jon Huntsman).

5:05 PM PT: Jim "Buy Bear Stearns" Cramer is in the house!

5:07 PM PT: Herman Cain gets the first question. Not about sexual harassment, but he says the administration needs to put "stuff in the caboose" to get the economy going. He doesn't directly answer the question, which is about whether we should let Italy and the rest of Europe fail.

5:08 PM PT: Mitt Romney says we absolutely shouldn't help Europe with a TARP like program. However, he says he's happy to fund organizations like the IMF to help stabilize their financial systems. So ... no way should we help Europe. Except to the extent that we help Europe.

5:09 PM PT: Jim Cramer asks Ron Paul whether he should buy Bear Stearns. Just kidding. Cramer is in character though. Impossible to take.

5:10 PM PT: Ron Paul makes an impassioned plea to let the economy hit bottom. As defined market.

5:10 PM PT: Jim Cramer is an embarrassment to humanity, and America. I'm so glad he's at the Republican debate.

5:12 PM PT: Jon Huntsman says we need to downsize banks—that we can't have banks that are too big to fail. I guess that means he supports (gasp!) government regulation of the financial industry.

5:13 PM PT: John Harwood asks Mitt Romney how anybody can trust him when he takes every side of every issue, specifically citing the bailout of auto companies. Romney smartly doesn't answer that part of the question, instead talking about how much he loves Michigan and hates bailouts.

5:15 PM PT: Harwood follows up, specifically citing Romney's "I'm running for office for Pete's sake" gaffe from the last debate, asking about his flip flops. Romney says it is "outrageous" that the Obama campaign would say he's flip flopped on every issue.

5:17 PM PT: Harwood asks Rick Perry about Mitt Romney's flip-flops. Perry starts out by basically ignoring Romney, and never addresses the question. He ends with "If you are too big to fail, you are too big." I guess the GOP argument here is that by letting TBTF companies fail, they will naturally disappear. The problem with that argument from my point of view is that you have to accept the pain that such failures will create. And in Perry's case, the fact is, he urged Congress to pass the bailout.

5:17 PM PT: Gingrich calls for Bernanke to be fired, and gets a warm response from the audience.

5:19 PM PT: Michele Bachman says something something regulation is bad something something repeal. Something something build a fence on the southern border.

5:21 PM PT: Rick Santorum looks like he's been hitting John Boehner's tanning bed. And I think he's got a new hairstyle. Plus, his tie looks like it might be glow-in-the-dark. Oh, and he blames government for making America uncompetitive. Which explains why America has the biggest economy in the world.

5:22 PM PT: Maria Bartirimo asks Herman Cain about the sexual harassment allegations. The crowd boos. Herman Cain says his integrity is more important to him than anything else and says he's never done anything like what he's been accused of. The crowd goes nuts. They love love love Herman Cain.

5:24 PM PT: John Harwood followed up on the Cain question, asking Mitt Romney whether he'd fire Herman Cain if Herman Cain were a CEO of a company that he owned. The crowd booed, and I think a candidate almost said "Oh s---." Romney said it's up voters to decide about Cain.

5:25 PM PT: Question about OWS and wealth inequality to Jon Huntsman. He says he's glad that OWS has the right to speak, but mostly turns the answer into a chance to bash bailouts.

5:29 PM PT: Cramer, calling Milton Friedman the most important economist of the 20th century, asks whether companies have a social responsibility to create jobs, or whether they should solely focus on jobs. Romney, Perry, and Gingrich all say it's a false choice, and that they should do both. Gingrich says it's "sad" that the media doesn't "report accurately" about how corporations have made America the richest country in the world. The crowd erupts into a big cheer. I'm waiting for them to pledge allegiance to Exxon.

5:32 PM PT: Herman Cain gets his chance to talk about his 9-9-9 plan. Let's see if any of his fellow candidates criticize it.

5:34 PM PT: Question is to Romney about why he hasn't proposed a flat tax and why he supports a progressive tax. His answer: I want to see a flatter tax code. And then he says he wants to help middle-class people. Because he wants their votes. He's running for office, for Pete's sake

5:36 PM PT: Harwood asks Bachmann to explain why Romney is wrong to support a progressive tax code. Her answer is Obama sucks, and everybody needs to pay taxes.

5:38 PM PT: Ron Paul proposes cutting $1 trillion in spending over the next 5 years. I'd have figured that for a Austerian he'd have wanted more cuts. I mean, that's less than this year's deficit.

From TPM.

8:37 PM: The moderators seem to be the enemy is this debate, taking the earlier role played by executed prisoners and gay soldiers. But the questions from the moderators have been some of the most probing and interesting that I've seen in this cycle.

Oops.

best line of the night came from Caine - "for every woman who says I harassed her there are thousands who say that I didn't."

Originally posted by Kunsoo
best line of the night came from Caine - "for every woman who says I harassed her there are thousands who say that I didn't."

Originally posted by generalissimo
I'd say Cain has obviously been set up by the racist liberal media for being a black conservative. Had it not been for this setback he'd be riding high in the polls on his merits alone, his views on China's nuclear aspirations in particular seem refreshingly original for example.

Originally posted by Kunsoo
And I think that Perry got set up by that trick question last night where he was asked to name the third agency he would nix. That question was almost as nefarious as asking Sara Palin what magazines she likes to read. Damn that liberal media!

Originally posted by sh76
Gloat all you like, Kunsoo, but Perry's and Cain's downfall is hurting Obama's reelection chances. We all know that Obama would almost certainly crush Cain or Perry. Romney will have a much stronger chance against Obama.

At this stage, you should really be rooting for Cain and Perry to do well.

Originally posted by Kunsoo
We might survive a Romney Presidency. We wouldn't survive either Cain or Perry.

I'm fairly confident that Romney has flip-flopped himself into too many corners to win, and Obama's team will take him apart methodically. When you have to run against your own landmark legislation, you've got serious problems. And there is a good 2 to 3 percentage of voters ...[text shortened]...

Huntsman really was your best chance. But he was pro-science. That kills his chances.

We wouldn't survive either Cain or Perry.-Kunsoo

Newt Gingrich only knows how to shut down a government. And how to get lots of expensive jewelry for his wife.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Newt Gingrich only knows how to shut down a government. And how to get lots of expensive jewelry for his wife.

Originally posted by utherpendragon

We wouldn't survive either Cain or Perry.-Kunsoo

Not that I think either one will get nominated let alone be elected President what do you feel would happen if they were ? How would we not "survive" ? In what way would it be worse than Obama ?
And... what if Newt Gingrich were elected President ? Would we "survive" ?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Thats a bit simplistic. Give a hypothetical or two of what would happen if he were President that would worsen things compared to what we have now.