Gotta Suck being old in the UK

Originally posted by Eladar
I'm not impressed with using doctors to convince the elderly not to get help. The medical profession should not be used to 'convince' people to not have procedures.

From what I'm reading Euthanasia is on the rise in Europe for the due to doctors convincing people it is time to go.

Seriously?

He said 'advice' by his GP. Why are you equating that with 'convincing' him not to have the operation. Isn't it a GP's job to advise patients of increased risk where necessary? It has already been made clear to you that age in itself isn't a barrier to such operations, but obviously the older you are the more complications and risk will need to be discussed with your doctor.

Clearly you are reading the wrong material and have absolutely no idea how things work in the UK. (Or indeed outside your padded cell).

Originally posted by Amaurote
Even if the cited article were true, it would simply indicate that a government agency administered by conservatives has been systematically underfunded for the past five years. It's surprising to me that so many right-wing libertarians seem to conflate agency and government where it is convenient to suit their arguments while simultaneously ignoring the ap ...[text shortened]... r has been anything other than a badly-regulated chaos of exploitative private sector companies.

In my experience libertarians broadly fall into two distinct categories. One is your run-of-the-mill cocaine snorting silver spoon kid, which you allude to in your post. However, the other group (a few members can be found on this forum) is not particularly well off and fall into a group that I would refer to as the "intellectually envious." They possess some basic literary skills, but find the complexities of the real world too much to handle, which makes libertarianism appealing to them. At the same time they regard themselves as superior to the average Joe Sixpack. This often breeds a resentment towards both intellectuals as well as democracy.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Seriously?

He said 'advice' by his GP. Why are you equating that with 'convincing' him not to have the operation. Isn't it a GP's job to advise patients of increased risk where necessary? It has already been made clear to you that age in itself isn't a barrier to such operations, but obviously the older you are the more complications and risk will ...[text shortened]... ial and have absolutely no idea how things work in the UK. (Or indeed outside your padded cell).

The doctor is a source of authority and people tend to believe them and take their advice when it comes to treatment.

Originally posted by Eladar
The doctor is a source of authority and people tend to believe them and take their advice when it comes to treatment.

Indeed, and the doctor is just as likely to give the green light for the operation to go ahead. 'Risk' not 'age' (in itself) is the overriding factor.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Indeed, and the doctor is just as likely to give the green light for the operation to go ahead. 'Risk' not 'age' (in itself) is the overriding factor.

Unless... it's an evil socialist doctor who wants to murder old people.

Originally posted by Amaurote

On a tangential point, it would be genuinely interesting to see a demographic chart of just how many libertarians are working-class, because I suspect many of them take felt freedoms for granted precisely because they don't understand the daily struggle of workers just to survive, let alone raise three cheers for a stateless utopia that still mysteriously ...[text shortened]... ably whatever other middle class comfort blankets spring uppermost to the libertarian mind.

.

What are these 'felt' freedoms?

Looks like you're trying to take a jab at libertarianism here, but your knowledge of what libertarianism is makes the 'jab' pretty darn ineffectual.

The tired old 'stateless utopia' red herring. It turns from a "POW" into a '...poof'. Libertarians make no such claims about a utopia. There will always be those that think they have a right to your property without your consent, the difference being in a free society that would become illegal. There will always be those that mess up their lives with abuse of drugs, lethargic unhealthy lifestyles and by indulging in reckless behaviors, the difference being in a free society they wouldn't be able to force others to be responsible for their own bad choices. Nope, the 'utopia' line is one of the most tired banal misrepresentations going. Congrats. you're only the 15 284 324th one to use it.

I was active in the Libertarianz party of NZ some years back so probably most qualified here to give a demographic of a small group of freedom lovers, but it's not likely to fit your pre-conceived dream state. I was a welder at the time as were 2 others, there was a doctor, an architect, 2 café managers, a nurse, a farmer, plus, plus (you get the picture). Women were under represented but I'll never forget the larger than life Hooch Helen:

http://libertarianz.org.nz/helen-hughes/

(Appreciate having met you Helen, where ever you are out there)

Never met the "run-of-the-mill cocaine snorting silver spoon kid" concocted stereotype, but I also doubt that the person that concocted that stereotype has met one either.

So if you would, fill us in on:

- "felt freedoms" versus "formal freedoms"
- "middle class blankets uppermost to the libertarian mind"

...that sprung to your mind but not to the minds of any libertarians I know.

Originally posted by RJHinds
There is no need to predict. They can't afford it now. 😏

thats because the NHS is overwhelmed with holiday health care ie people from the rest of the EU coming here for treatment I worked with a Polish man a nice guy but he only stayed in the UK because his wife had type 1 Diabetes and couldn't afford treatment back home, here she gets her insulin for free.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Unless... it's an evil socialist doctor who wants to murder old people.

Of course. Evil socialist doctors are always the exception.

Originally posted by redbadger
thats because the NHS is overwhelmed with holiday health care ie people from the rest of the EU coming here for treatment I worked with a Polish man a nice guy but he only stayed in the UK because his wife had type 1 Diabetes and couldn't afford treatment back home, here she gets her insulin for free.

Most EU immigrants in the UK are of working age and much less likely to require the services of the NHS than British citizens.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Most EU immigrants in the UK are of working age and much less likely to require the services of the NHS than British citizens.

are u brain dead

Originally posted by Eladar
I'm not impressed with using doctors to convince the elderly not to get help. The medical profession should not be used to 'convince' people to not have procedures.

From what I'm reading Euthanasia is on the rise in Europe for the due to doctors convincing people it is time to go.

A doctor who failed to inform an elderly patient of the increased risks they run by having non-essential medical procedures would be guilty of gross malpractice.

Originally posted by no1marauder
A doctor who failed to inform an elderly patient of the increased risks they run by having non-essential medical procedures would be guilty of gross malpractice.

It also doesn't make financial sense to talk over 75's out of having hip replacements etc (if they are physically able to undergo the procedure) as the cost of having to provide long term hospital or community care would be a great deal higher than the cost of the operation.

Originally posted by sh76
The British system has its problems, but it's better than the American system where we spend twice has much for (at best) similar results.

The problems with NHS is that by putting government in charge of administering the healthcare, you're begging for inefficiency and bureaucracy.

I do like the British systems' idea of bifurcating the system: If you can ...[text shortened]... ccasional person who has to run to Buffalo to get an aneurysm removed rather that wait 7 months.

Folks, don't look now, but we have a closet Liberal in training here. sh76 is seeing the light! 😀

Originally posted by redbadger
are u brain dead

Which part of my statement specifically do you dispute?