Originally posted by rwingettHardly the greatest movie - nor is Moore the great documentary maker he is claimed to be.
[b]Farenheit 9/11 (the greatest movie of all time) has now raked in $94 million and is still playing in 2,000 theaters nationwide. Despite Republican allegations that Moore was merely playing to the choir, the movie is clearly being se ...[text shortened]... re for President in 2008!
Tar and feathers for all Republicans![/b]
His style is too scattered, too smart-arsed, too self congratulatory and too loose with the facts - all of which give his targets far too much ammunition.
In 'Bowling for Columbine', he linked the school shooting to that morning's bombing in Serbia. The link is poor - it was an action sanctioned and approved by the United Nations and supported by the European Union. He also tried to link the shooting to the manufacture of missiles in Columbine - to be told the missiles were for defence and the United States does not go out and attack people.
This is where his new film should have started - not a grab bag of allegations but a clear indictment of Bush's illegal invasion and the split that it has caused in the West. The Bush doctrine is to ignore international law and strike pre-emptively, based on mis-information and propaganda. When a country acts outside the law, it is a rogue nation and Bush has used 911 to pursue his own plans against Iraq. It is this that Moore should be exposing.
Well, of course, the greatest film ever made was Casablanca, but certainly Farenheit 9/11 was a powerful indictment of the Bush administration's foolish and murderous policy in the Middle East.
As most of the film is a matter of public record, I would ask the right wingers here to specifically mention those facts presented in the movie that were untrue. Not the opinions mind you, but facts. I await your response.
I also thought the segments with the military recruiters concentrating on poor neighborhoods, offering financial inducements for poor kids to get killed while skipping the wealthy mall ("we don't get much response there"😉 was an accurate and powerful part of the movie. And the scenes with war supporting congressman running away when Moore and a marine recruiter were trying to get THEIR kids to join the military were hilarious, but also revealing.
Originally posted by deathbypawnno, unfortunatly it was very easy to dispute. I hate BushCo, but 9/11 was massively disapointing. Instead of sticking to the facts as to how crap BushCo is, how wrong the war in Iraq is etc. he used a series of misleading half truths and inuendo to paint the picture. I was really disappointed with it because if anything it gives the Bush supporters fuel when they show the holes in this film.
must agree I am a right wing nut and I thought the movie had alot of valid points. hard to dispute
Bambi.
I especially liked the part where "uncle max" shot the mommy and brought it home for us to eat. I only wish they would have shown the "gutting" part. But it got clipped onto the floor for Michael Moore to turn into "documentary truth" someday. I can hardly wait.
<snirk>
Originally posted by rwingetthttp://slate.msn.com/id/2102723
[b]Farenheit 9/11 (the greatest movie of all time) has now raked in $94 million and is still playing in 2,000 theaters nationwide. Despite Republican allegations that Moore was merely playing to the choir, the movie is clearly being seen by a whole spectrum of moviegoers outside of the hardcore bleeding heart liberals. Except for the right wing nut jobs ...[text shortened]... hell, Michael!
Micheal Moore for President in 2008!
Tar and feathers for all Republicans![/b]
I will only add that you 'worn out commies' are also great comic relief to a serious world.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyJust so you left leaners recognize it...
Bambi.
I especially liked the part where "uncle max" shot the mommy and brought it home for us to eat. I only wish they would have shown the "gutting" part. But it got clipped onto the floor for Michael Moore to turn into "documentary truth" someday. I can hardly wait.
<snirk>
This post was made for "Shock Value". In the hopes that you will learn not to be too in love with propaganda spouting worn out commies. Eh Rob?
"I have a dream! Captive! Thank God! Captive At Last!"
Only if we lower our guard against these commie fools.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyWell, talking about propapanda...
Just so you left leaners recognize it...
This post was made for "Shock Value". In the hopes that you will learn not to be too in love with propaganda spouting worn out commies. Eh Rob?
"I have a dream! Captive! Thank God! Captive At Last!"
Only if we lower our guard against these commie fools.
Were are your arguments? All you do is sit behin your keyboard shouting: "Don't listen to the commie propaganda!"
Which, in itself, is also propaganda.
Let's sum up Michael Moore's film:
Bush was elected due to corruption in Florida and Fox network (which is owned by his cousin) calling the election for him, which in turn made all other networks do the same (I believe it was Fox, but it could have been one of the other ones).
More than 75% of the recounts gave the election to Gore.
Bush, after hearing about the terrorist attacks on New York sat quiet, doing nothing, for more than 10 minutes (its on camera...well, maybe the communists added a minute or two somewhere...Marx only knows!).
The Bin Laden's and other Saudi-Arabians were the only folk allowed to fly during the flight ban.
Saudi Arabia's Bin Laden family have financial ties to the Bush family.
17% of the US economy is Saudi-Arabian money.
Bush was gunning for Iraq from moment 1.
The dossier on Iraq was one big lie.
Afghanistan was a farce.
The Taliban were visiting the Bush's in the April before 9/11.
Haliburton and the Carlysle group have made billions of dollars out of the war on Afghanistan and Iraq.
These companies are (part) owned and (part) run by members of the government who decided on the war in Iraq.
It's seems to be the poor who are dying to make the rich richer. anything to get out of the poverty trap.
------------------
Where is all the propaganda SVW?
Where are the weapons of mass destruction Colin Powell was so readily able to pin-point at that UN conference?
How come the greatest army in the world couldn't catch a man on a dialysis machine?
I agree that Moore's film came across like propagana, but I'm sure he done that to try to get through to people like you. The people like the young men and women who are being forced into the army to make people like the Bush's and the Saudi Bin Laden's even richer. To try to wake them up, so they might smell the coffee.
And the one wee gem that really gleamed, you don't mention. I presume it passed you by.
But, being as fair as I am...
At one time you are shown a billboard and on this billboard there is an advertisment for Kill Bill, the Tarantino movie.
Tarantino was chairman (or whatever it's called) of the Cannes commission who gave the documentary the Palm D'or.
So let's responde to your summation of Moore's film:
Bush was elected due to corruption in Florida and Fox network (which is owned by his cousin) calling the election for him, which in turn made all other networks do the same (I believe it was Fox, but it could have been one of the other ones).
- The only corruption in Florida was the inability of the Gore campaign to effectively corrupt the process enough to pull out the win. Fox was not the first nor the second nor the third network to change its position despite what Moore wants you to believe.
More than 75% of the recounts gave the election to Gore.
- Pretty much completely false. All but the most farfetched recount scenario's had Bush winning. The Florida State supreme court upheld current Florida law by not allowing the Gore campaign to force in ELECTION RULE CHANGES AFTER THE ELECTION SHEESH! Gore was the one that wanted to include FELONS, but exclude foreign residing U.S. servicemen. Despicable.
Bush, after hearing about the terrorist attacks on New York sat quiet, doing nothing, for more than 10 minutes (its on camera...well, maybe the communists added a minute or two somewhere...Marx only knows!).
- And you would prefer him to have jumped up and said yeehaw? What would you have done.
The Bin Laden's and other Saudi-Arabians were the only folk allowed to fly during the flight ban.
- false, they did not fly until after the ban was lifted...and the person that approved the flight...Clarke.
Saudi Arabia's Bin Laden family have financial ties to the Bush family.
- maybe but it's a stretch a looooong stretch
17% of the US economy is Saudi-Arabian money.
- What percentage of the US economy is derived from other countries, how is this measured?
Bush was gunning for Iraq from moment 1.
- Insinuation.
The dossier on Iraq was one big lie.
- No it wasn't as the 911 commission has now come out and shown. There were at least two significant meetings between Al Queida and Iraq, Saddam even offered them Iraq as a haven (they turned him down preferring Afganastan). The capability certainly appears to be ru
Afghanistan was a farce.
- ??WTF
The Taliban were visiting the Bush's in the April before 9/11.
- Literally the first place I have seen this brought up?
Haliburton and the Carlysle group have made billions of dollars out of the war on Afghanistan and Iraq.
- Somebody was going to make money rebuilding Iraq and Afghanastan, there aren't many companies with the expertise to accomplish something like rebuilding (building in the case of Afghanastan) a country's infrastructure.
These companies are (part) owned and (part) run by members of the government who decided on the war in Iraq.
- ?? so, go to war to make business and then cost the country 200 billion dollars, ludicrous.
It's seems to be the poor who are dying to make the rich richer. anything to get out of the poverty trap.
- Never been any different in the armed forces. Ever.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Basically with a sprinkling of truth intermixed with powerfull movie making skills, Michael Moore wrapped his movie in lies to get his message accross. He is not the first to do so and he certainly won't be the last.
Originally posted by FeivelMetropolis is an interesting choice. Many people in this thread are claiming that Farenheit 9/11 is nothing more than liberal propoganda. It could also be claimed (as I'm sure you're well aware) that Metropolis is nothing more than a left wing piece of propoganda. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Farenheit 9/11 is NOT the greatest film of all time nor is it even close. Perhaps it deserves a spot at number 10000 on the list but #1 is reserved for the masterpiece by Fritz Lang - Metropolis. First science fiction film EVER and very influential 🙂
Feivel
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI don't understand your fear of communism. It hasn't worked, and is failing wherever it exists. I don't see anything to fear. Wait long enough and it will completely disappear. China has moved towards capitalism, North Korea will fall when the wacko ruler is gone, Cuba will become an ally when Castro dies.
Just so you left leaners recognize it...
This post was made for "Shock Value". In the hopes that you will learn not to be too in love with propaganda spouting worn out commies. Eh Rob?
"I have a dream! Captive! Thank God! Captive At Last!"
Only if we lower our guard against these commie fools.
IMO, with the world going to a global economy, bad economic models will fail. On any meaninful scale, communism will eventually only be taught as a historical sidenote.
Ahh but one of the primary tenets of communism is that the level of productivity must reach a certain level before it becomes viable. It could be argued that the only productivity level that could sustain communism is where man's creature comforts are 100% achieved with virtually no human labor required anymore. Essentially, when you no longer have to rely on altruism to motivate the human beast then communism has a chance.
The USSR and its ilk were trying to implement a economic system before its time.