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Originally posted by EladarThat was an unmitigated disaster as any student of the many Panics and depressions caused by the lack of any type of central banking in 19th Century America knows.
How about the gold standard?
Go back to the way it was before the Fed came into existance.
EDIT: Since like most right wingers you probably are abysmally ignorant of history, you can study here: http://history1800s.about.com/od/thegildedage/a/financialpanics.htm
Originally posted by Eladar- The gold standard is abolished.
How about the gold standard?
Go back to the way it was before the Fed came into existance.
- Inflation levels stabilize at acceptable levels and the financial system exhibits unprecedented robustness, weathering the 2008 crisis without any real problems.
- People whine to bring back the gold standard.
???
Originally posted by KazetNagorraYou really think the 2008 financial crisis and its aftermath showed a "financial system [that] exhibits unprecedented robustness"?
- The gold standard is abolished.
- Inflation levels stabilize at acceptable levels and the financial system exhibits unprecedented robustness, weathering the 2008 crisis without any real problems.
- People whine to bring back the gold standard.
???
Not saying the gold standard is any type of solution, but get real.
Originally posted by no1marauderYes. Of course there's still a lot of room for improvement, but there has been no stagflation spiral (yet), for example. Perhaps the pre-capitalist systems were more "robust", but that's hardly relevant for a modern society.
You really think the 2008 financial crisis and its aftermath showed a "financial system [that] exhibits unprecedented robustness"?
Not saying the gold standard is any type of solution, but get real.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraThe air must be really thin in Ivory Tower Land.
Yes. Of course there's still a lot of room for improvement, but there has been no stagflation spiral (yet), for example. Perhaps the pre-capitalist systems were more "robust", but that's hardly relevant for a modern society.
The wholesale deregulation of the banking and financial systems pushed by international Friedmanites has led to crisis after crisis in the last 20 years. Even something which would appear to be globally insignificant like the size of a small country's debt seems to be a source of extreme peril to the "robust" financial system.
Joseph Stiglitz had this to say about the 2008 financial crisis:
Finally, at the center of blame must be the financial institutions themselves. They -- and even more their executives -- had incentives that were not well aligned with the needs of our economy and our society.
They were amply rewarded, presumably for managing risk and allocating capital, which was supposed to improve the efficiency of the economy so much that it justified their generous compensation. But they misallocated capital; they mismanaged risk -- they created risk.
They did what their incentive structures were designed to do: focusing on short-term profits and encouraging excessive risk-taking.
This is not the first crisis in our financial system, not the first time that those who believe in free and unregulated markets have come running to the government for bail-outs. There is a pattern here, one that suggests deep systemic problems -- and a variety of solutions:
1. We need first to correct incentives for executives, reducing the scope for conflicts of interest and improving shareholder information about dilution in share value as a result of stock options. We should mitigate the incentives for excessive risk-taking and the short-term focus that has so long prevailed, for instance, by requiring bonuses to be paid on the basis of, say, five-year returns, rather than annual returns.
2. Secondly, we need to create a financial product safety commission, to make sure that products bought and sold by banks, pension funds, etc. are safe for "human consumption." Consenting adults should be given great freedom to do whatever they want, but that does not mean they should gamble with other people's money. Some may worry that this may stifle innovation. But that may be a good thing considering the kind of innovation we had -- attempting to subvert accounting and regulations. What we need is more innovation addressing the needs of ordinary Americans, so they can stay in their homes when economic conditions change.
3. We need to create a financial systems stability commission to take an overview of the entire financial system, recognizing the interrelations among the various parts, and to prevent the excessive systemic leveraging that we have just experienced.
4. We need to impose other regulations to improve the safety and soundness of our financial system, such as "speed bumps" to limit borrowing. Historically, rapid expansion of lending has been responsible for a large fraction of crises and this crisis is no exception.
5. We need better consumer protection laws, including laws that prevent predatory lending.
6. We need better competition laws. The financial institutions have been able to prey on consumers through credit cards partly because of the absence of competition. But even more importantly, we should not be in situations where a firm is "too big to fail." If it is that big, it should be broken up.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/17/stiglitz.crisis/index.html
Naturally, none of his proposals have been enacted in any significant manner. The financial system remains a mess and a recurrence of the same disaster quite possible.
Originally posted by no1marauderThat'll be the poor sods in Greece that have to work harder to cover all the shirkers.
Here's some info they might not have mentioned in your grad school:
South Korea's hard-working citizenry is not alone. [b]Greece comes second in the OECD's rankings with 2,052 hours worked on average each year, and just behind is a trio of Eastern European nations: Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland. The U.S. is also above the OECD ave ...[text shortened]... rbes.com/2008/05/21/labor-market-workforce-lead-citizen-cx_po_0521countries.html
LMAO![/b]
Originally posted by no1marauderAgree with all that.I am not surprised that little of that has come into law. And Obama is somewhat responsible for not making sure it does. He promised a lot of what was on that list in a ew of his hot air speeches.
The air must be really thin in Ivory Tower Land.
The wholesale deregulation of the banking and financial systems pushed by international Friedmanites has led to crisis after crisis in the last 20 years. Even something which would appear to be globally insignificant like the size of a small country's debt seems to be a source of extreme ...[text shortened]... financial system remains a mess and a recurrence of the same disaster quite possible.
Let's wait for the next crisis resulting from greed.
Originally posted by no1marauderNothing. The Constitution designates Congress with the duty of borrowing and coining money. Article one, Section 8.
Out of idle curiosity, what would you replace the Fed with?
We did without the Federal Reserve from 1791 until 1913. It is a private cabal of banks, given the appearance of a Federal agency, in much the manner of Fannie and Freddie, and other NGOs. Part of Congress's responsibilities was to deter counterfeiting, which the Federal Reserve does with impunity.
Originally posted by no1marauderThe 19th century panics, bank failures and depressions were minor and local, because people were held responsible for bad acting. Just fifteen years after the Fed's approval, the United States and the world entered the great depression which led to the Second World War.
That was an unmitigated disaster as any student of the many Panics and depressions caused by the lack of any type of central banking in 19th Century America knows.
EDIT: Since like most right wingers you probably are abysmally ignorant of history, you can study here: http://history1800s.about.com/od/thegildedage/a/financialpanics.htm
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Originally posted by normbenignThe Bank of the United States debate and McCullough v. Maryland pretty much settled this argument against your position about two centuries ago.
Nothing. The Constitution designates Congress with the duty of borrowing and coining money. Article one, Section 8.
We did without the Federal Reserve from 1791 until 1913. It is a private cabal of banks, given the appearance of a Federal agency, in much the manner of Fannie and Freddie, and other NGOs. Part of Congress's responsibilities was to deter counterfeiting, which the Federal Reserve does with impunity.
The counterfeiting claim is preposterous as I'm sure even you are aware.
Originally posted by normbenignLMAO!!
The 19th century panics, bank failures and depressions were minor and local, because people were held responsible for bad acting. Just fifteen years after the Fed's approval, the United States and the world entered the great depression which led to the Second World War.
You really are an idiot. I suggest you study the link I gave the other idiot.