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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 10 Mar '10 00:07
    Is there a reason we have to swallow the whole apple in one bite?
    I mean look at those 2400 pages.
    Could we possibly agree to say 4 things this year, hopefully those that would help the most people. But, mandate something for each of the next 8 years, that HAS to be acomplished. That would give a committee a year to work over the next issue.
    In Oregon, we have the Oregon Medical Insurance Pool, which is still too expensive for most people. we also have a free prescription card, that gives discounts on prescriptions.
    How can we help those most in need? Quickly?
    Freeze Insurance premium prices to where they were last year? Along with prescriptions? Give insurance credits according to wages from your Tax return?
    There is no doubt it is time to fix it, but the whole thing may be easier to swallow in chunks, and change as we go along.. Just thinking, because this issue is tearing us up as a country right now.
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    10 Mar '10 01:01
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    Is there a reason we have to swallow the whole apple in one bite?
    I mean look at those 2400 pages.
    Could we possibly agree to say 4 things this year, hopefully those that would help the most people. But, mandate something for each of the next 8 years, that HAS to be acomplished. That would give a committee a year to work over the next issue.
    In Oregon, ...[text shortened]... ange as we go along.. Just thinking, because this issue is tearing us up as a country right now.
    We ARE swallowing it in chunks. It'll take us another 200 years to get socialized medicine at this rate.
  3. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    10 Mar '10 01:05
    Originally posted by rwingett
    We ARE swallowing it in chunks. It'll take us another 200 years to get socialized medicine at this rate.
    Too fast.
  4. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    10 Mar '10 01:06
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Too fast.
    Sez you.
  5. 10 Mar '10 01:21
    "I mean look at those 2400 pages!"

    LOL

    I bet a three page loan contract would confuse you, so why do you care if it's 2400 pages or one page? If I remember correctly the GOP plan was something like 700 pages. Have you read all 700 pages and what are the chances you'll be able to understand it?

    The whole "OMG the size of it!" mantra is irrelevant smokescreen. NO bills are ever easily deciphered by the layman. They're LAWS which means they're inevitably a compilation of legalese.

    If you would like a brief synopsis of the plans written by a reputable source, here

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/13/health-care-reform-simple-explanation/
  6. 10 Mar '10 02:00 / 6 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    We ARE swallowing it in chunks. It'll take us another 200 years to get socialized medicine at this rate.
    That is what it is all about isn't it? Statists must move in increments, no matter how hard it is for them to wait because people on average don't want the government in their business. To quell such opposition, one method is to wait for times of crisis to begin implementing their agendas which is happening now. If you ask me, this health care bill is simply a prelude to another crisis much like the current Medicare/Medicaid system is about to experience if no change is achieved.

    For a taste of what I am talking about, just listen to Congressman Kucinich

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/kucinich-nader-like-spoil_n_491571.html

    Kucinich is on the far left and says he will oppose Obamacare in favor of a single payer system. He says, "This bill represents a giveaway to the insurance companies, $70 billion a year, and no guarantee of any control over premiums forcing people to buy private insurance, five consecutive years of double digit premium increases."

    In short, Kucinich is just as inpatient as you rwingett. What he does not get, however, is that Obamacare is not suppose to work, rather, it is desinged to fail. Obamacare is nothing but an olive branche to those who oppose NHC. One olive branch of compromise came with Medicare/Medicaid and Obamacare is the next step. Just like Medicare/Medicaid was eventually unworkable, so is this bill and they all know it. What it will do, however, is create yet another crisis that demands more action and more compromise that will eventually lead to a single payer system.
  7. 10 Mar '10 02:16 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    "I mean look at those 2400 pages!"

    LOL

    I bet a three page loan contract would confuse you, so why do you care if it's 2400 pages or one page? If I remember correctly the GOP plan was something like 700 pages. Have you read all 700 pages and what are the chances you'll be able to understand it?

    The whole "OMG the size of it!" mantra is i .politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/13/health-care-reform-simple-explanation/
    This Obamacare is no different than the previous Medicare/Medicaid bill. When it is launched no one exactly knows when or where it will crash. All that is known is that it will crash. They have no idea what the expenses will be even though they say they have an educated guess. My guess is that it will not take as long for it to crash than it did Medicare/Medicaid.

    The bottom line is that those on the left think that health care is a right. Of course, they don't mean a right to purchase health care, like a right to property for example, what they mean is the obligation of government to buy it for them if they are unable to do so. At that point the gloves are off and it really matters little how much debt is incurred in this pursuit. All government can do then is try and control as many aspect to health care as it can in an effort to reduce costs. Unfortunatly, we also have to worry about quality of care just as we do costs of health care. So tell me, doesn't Obamacare make cuts in Medicare? Isn't it forced to do so in order to cover more people? What will happen and must happen is for those without coverage now to be elevated in the health care spectrum and those with health care to be lowered. That is why those in socaized countries have much higher mortality rates with cancer than in the US. The waits are longer to see doctors and the treatments are not as aggressive. Then again, perhaps some lives are saved for those who would not ordinarily have access to coverage. If you ask me, it is a bit like juggling oranges, only, our choices are limited by government.
  8. 10 Mar '10 02:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    This Obamacare is no different than the previous Medicare/Medicaid bill. When it is launched no one exactly knows when or where it will crash. All that is known is that it will crash. They have no idea what the expenses will be even though they say they have an educated guess. My guess is that it will not take as long for it to crash than it did Medicare/ ...[text shortened]... f you ask me, it is a bit like juggling oranges, only, our choices are limited by government.
    Wow. Somebody had his daily Beck scare pill.

    "all that is known is it will crash"

    Known by who? What will crash?
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    10 Mar '10 02:37
    Originally posted by whodey
    My guess is that it will not take as long for it to crash than it did Medicare/Medicaid.
    When did Medicare/Medicaid "crash"? Good Lord, with the hustle bustle of the 24 hour news cycle one only has to dither in the kitchen awhile and one misses something.
  10. 10 Mar '10 02:58
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    "I mean look at those 2400 pages!"

    LOL

    I bet a three page loan contract would confuse you, so why do you care if it's 2400 pages or one page? If I remember correctly the GOP plan was something like 700 pages. Have you read all 700 pages and what are the chances you'll be able to understand it?

    The whole "OMG the size of it!" mantra is i ...[text shortened]... .politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/13/health-care-reform-simple-explanation/
    Ouch that hurt you ass---- Lol JK
    A three page contract wouldn't be hard. But a house closing affair is another matter..:-)
    So, I'll take your word for it, and call everyone of my friends in Washington, and tell them no need to worry, we can pay for after we're dead.
    Is that site you posted the GODs honest TRUTH? Cause I'm holding ya to it, before I send it.
  11. 10 Mar '10 03:08
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    "I mean look at those 2400 pages!"

    LOL

    I bet a three page loan contract would confuse you, so why do you care if it's 2400 pages or one page? If I remember correctly the GOP plan was something like 700 pages. Have you read all 700 pages and what are the chances you'll be able to understand it?

    The whole "OMG the size of it!" mantra is i ...[text shortened]... .politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/13/health-care-reform-simple-explanation/
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal

    better to grab it right from todays news, and the White House itself,, read on
  12. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    10 Mar '10 03:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    That is what it is all about isn't it? Statists must move in increments, no matter how hard it is for them to wait because people on average don't want the government in their business. To quell such opposition, one method is to wait for times of crisis to begin implementing their agendas which is happening now. If you ask me, this health care bill is simp ...[text shortened]... demands more action and more compromise that will eventually lead to a single payer system.
    I voted for Kucinich in the 2008 Michigan Democratic primaries. I'd do it again.
  13. 10 Mar '10 03:22
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Wow. Somebody had his daily Beck scare pill.

    "all that is known is it will crash"

    Known by who? What will crash?
    Glenn Beck is not scaring me, Obama is.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/11/obama.health.care/index.html

    In short, the sky is falling is nothing is done!! Medicare will run out of money in 10 years according to the Messiah.
  14. 10 Mar '10 03:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I voted for Kucinich in the 2008 Michigan Democratic primaries. I'd do it again.
    I think Obama needs to send over his goon Rahm to give Kucinich a good spanking Massa style!!

    The only words of advice I can give Kucinich is, "DON"T TAKE A SHOWER WITH RAHM!!" But I think that is only common sense.
  15. 10 Mar '10 03:24
    Ok, I started reading the Presidents version
    here's a question.
    Title VII Improving Acess to Innovative Medical Therapies
    Will stop drug companies from preventing effective and affordable generic versions off the market..
    How? A drug company gets a patent for a new drug they come up with, are we going to challenge the patent rights of these companies?
    Examples of drugs I now take that have patents: Copaxone, Ambien, Provigil, Avonex.
    What does this do to the R & D of companies researching new drugs? Do they just say,, oh WTF,, it's not worth our time and effort and money??