This subject has plagued me ever since it was first brought up, and I woke up the other day with the inkling of a thought. That thought grew. I encouraged it, sang to it, made sure it had food and pruned off the bad bits. In the end, it told me what I wanted to know, that is, the one thing that unites all humanity, the one trait that is common in all of us and therefore links us.
That one thing is the quest for perfection (to be known here on in as QfP).
We all do it in some way or another. Not necesserily in ourselves, of course. Many of us come to the realization quickly that the self is unavoidably imperfect, so we extend the QfP outward. Some seek out sports, and put so much of their will into the hope that their team will be perfect this year. Some look at women (more rarely men) for the perfection of image (remember that guy in "Beautiful Girls" who had a bedroom wall covered in pictures of models?) Others turn to the persuit of knowledge, yet others turn to religion (God being the ultimate image of perfection).
These are vague, flimsy examples, I know. But the crux is true. If you look at yourself, I bet you will find that you spend your life searching for perfection as well.
Originally posted by thesonofsaulI may pursue knowledge, but not perfect or complete knowledge. I may pursue beauty, but I've never pursued perfect beauty (if that even makes sense). Humans pursue that which they take to be good, or worth pursuing. While some may take perfection as the ultimate aim of action, I doubt this is common. Try writing a paper sometime with perfection as the goal, or writing a song, or being romantic. Taking perfection as your goal is the quickest way to paralyze yourself. "How should I start? What's the perfect way to start? What would the perfect end result look like? Etc. etc." Since people aren't, by and large, plagued by such concerns, it stands to reason that perfection isn't their common goal.
This subject has plagued me ever since it was first brought up, and I woke up the other day with the inkling of a thought. That thought grew. I encouraged it, sang to it, made sure it had food and pruned off the bad bits. In the end, it told me what I wanted to know, that is, the one thing that unites all humanity, the one trait that is common in all ...[text shortened]... look at yourself, I bet you will find that you spend your life searching for perfection as well.
Originally posted by bbarrAs I said, the perfection is not always in the self; in fact, it usually is not. Perfection is unreachable. Those that actually persue perfection for themselves are usually concidered quite sick--anorexics, men who work out all the time because they feel too small, etc. What I speak of isn't necessarily an action of the self, but rather a type of vigilence. Always keeping the eyes open in search of perfection. We never actually see it, at least not head on. But occasionally we glimspe it, of glimspe something that satisfies us in that area. We hear the perfect song--it may not stay perfect, and if you ask the person who wrote it it most certainly is not perfect, but in that moment, for you, it was. Your football team scares the winning touchdown in the superbowl and the crowd goes wild. Why do they go wild? They didn't do anything! This is the QfP. The perception of perfection creates immense elation. As I said in my original post, we see ourselves and most of what we do as hopelessly imperfect. That does not mean that we cannot, or that we do not seek perfection out on a regular basis, and savor every moment of it.
I may pursue knowledge, but not perfect or complete knowledge. I may pursue beauty, but I've never pursued perfect beauty (if that even makes sense). [b]Humans pursue that which they take to be good, or worth pursuing. While some may take perfection as the ultimate aim of action, I doubt this is common. Try writing a paper sometime with perfection as ...[text shortened]... d large, plagued by such concerns, it stands to reason that perfection isn't their common goal.[/b]
Originally posted by bbarrI don't know about this. There are people who pursue what they think
I may pursue knowledge, but not perfect or complete knowledge. I may pursue beauty, but I've never pursued perfect beauty (if that even makes sense). [b]Humans pursue that which they take to be good, or worth pursuing. While some may take perfection as the ultimate aim of action, I doubt this is common. Try writing a paper sometime with perfection as ...[text shortened]... d large, plagued by such concerns, it stands to reason that perfection isn't their common goal.[/b]
to be perfection, to strive for ideals which are beyond their reach. Can't
a person take the concept of 'perfection' to be something 'worth pursuing,'
as you say.
And, I'll agree, one must have sober judgment about it; if you are unrealistic
about this pursuit, it can be paralyzing.
Perhaps a better way of saying it is that some humans are in the pursuit
of 'being better,' where 'better' is in the direction of perfection.
Nemesio
Originally posted by thesonofsaulI wasn't claiming that perfection is in the self. I was claiming that our pursuit of perfection (in, say, writing a paper, or composing, or being intimate with another) would paralyze us. We still engage in these pursuits successfully, however. Hence, perfection cannot be our ultimate goal. You are right that we pursue ends that lead to peak experiences, elation, etc. But you get the order of explanation backwards. We do not seek these things because we desire elation. Rather, we find ourselves elated when we achieve something we already think of as good or worth pursuing. We pursue what we take to be good or worth pursuing, and perfection has nothing to do with it for many people.
As I said, the perfection is not always in the self; in fact, it usually is not. Perfection is unreachable. Those that actually persue perfection for themselves are usually concidered quite sick--anorexics, men who work out all the time because they feel too small, etc. What I speak of isn't necessarily an action of the self, but rather a type of vi ...[text shortened]... cannot, or that we do not seek perfection out on a regular basis, and savor every moment of it.
Perfecton is not the driving force or the desired, but unattainable end point that you suggest sonofsaul. Often it is a place of ridicule, theoretically at least. Should someone reach perfection he suffers from the loneliness of unique status. Human beings love to deride and put down those who have achieved higher positions and being higher puts you in a position of frailty and makes you a target. I do not believe anyone in their right mind likes being at the very top of the tree.
If we look at the idea from an evolutionary point of view it becomes evident that perfection is not a status that is desired either. To acheive perfection would require a perfect adaptation to ones environment, it would mean a removal of any form of social structure and the ability to survive and thrive without optimum resource availability. Evolution has never caused such a structure, it would be counter productive, it would cease evolution entirely.
If we look at religion, perfection is as good as calling yourself god himself and those who are religious would never dream of attempting this as it would most definitely be a sin.
I believe the one uniting thing of the human race is perhaps a desire to be top of the heap, King of the castle, but this is a position within the limitations of one's own social and resource structured habitat. Perfection is not an ideal, it is a dream. Power is desireable, perfection is not, it is a position of great danger when placed against the rest of humanity.
Indeed what is perfection? If it is total and absolute perfection then surely it can only be termed as something akin to god. I for one have no desire to be anything other than what mathematics provides for me. If it is some sense of human perfection then surely one man's perfection is another man's devilry.
No, I believe not only is there no such thing as perfection, humans do not strive for t either and wel they should not.
So what do we strive for? A place from which to stand triumphant? Perhaps. A level of attention above others? Maybe. A degree of power with which to ensure one's genetic advancement? Surely.
In my opinion we can but obey our instincts and those tell us (more often than not) to live, reproduce and die. What we do along the way is superfluous. If any sense of perfection exists, perhaps it is that we perform such tasks as quickly as possible 🙂
As to a normative state, I think we are straying from the original thread but I still believe in the state of inquiry, it is a state from which all tasks are performed and one that is bgoth necessary for and encouraging to, evolution. Even if one is a creationist, it does not rule out this possibility either. Just my 2 (or perhaps 99) cents 🙂
Originally posted by StarrmanOkay, I think everyone is missing my point. I'm not the best at communicating my ideas at times, something my wife can attest. When I say that humanity quests for perfection, I do not mean that the quest for a perfect existance for themselves, or even quest to improve themselves at all. The quest is usually external, as in my example of sports fans. We yearn for that perfect romance, that perfect season, that perfect argument. When we discover that we cannot reach perfection, that we are indeed deeply flawed, we look for perfection elsewhere.
Perfecton is not the driving force or the desired, but unattainable end point that you suggest sonofsaul. Often it is a place of ridicule, theoretically at least. Should someone reach perfection he suffers from the loneliness of unique status. Human beings love to deride and put down those who have achieved higher positions and being higher puts you in ...[text shortened]... eationist, it does not rule out this possibility either. Just my 2 (or perhaps 99) cents 🙂
We never find it, we never really see it, but we do glimpse it, we do occasionally convince ourselves that it is there, shining right before us. Then it is gone, and we continue our search.
This is a quest for perfection, a search outside of ourselves. This is not a desire to become perfect, an affliction that affects only the pitiful few. This is instead a quest to merely catch a whiff of the unattainable.