Go back
Human Shields

Human Shields

Debates

Vote Up
Vote Down

Force X is attacking inferior Force Y.

Force Y mingles with Civilians Y.

What exactly is the despicableness of the human shield tactic in this military situation?

(1) Is it because Force X now has no choice but to kill innocent civilians - a despicable course of action - in order to achieve its military objectives?

(2) or is it because Force X now ought not to take the course of action which involves killing too many innocent civilians and has to take more risks with its own combatants (a despicable dilemma set up by Force Y's actions) in order to achieve its military objectives?

1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FMF
Force X is attacking inferior Force Y.

Force Y mingles with Civilians Y.

What exactly is the despicableness of the human shield tactic in this military situation?

(1) Is it because Force X now has no choice but to kill innocent civilians - a despicable course of action - in order to achieve its military objectives?

(2) or is it because ...[text shortened]... a despicable dilemma set up by Force Y's actions) in order to achieve its military objectives?
Interesting question.

If any civilians are killed, then it is despicable. Period.

But in this scenario X is superior. And they, who is superior, have the obligation also to be morally superior. And that means he has the obligation to not kill any innocents. If not, they are inferior morally, despite the fact that they are military superior. Who cheers low moral? Noone.

They who are morally superior, even if they say so themselves, should solve the problem peacefully at the first place. Not by weapons, but with other means. If they succeed in this, they are both military superior - and - morally superior.

Example: I am robbed by a former friend. Do I kill him? No, because I have no low moral. I try to reason with him. If that doesn't work, and I am sure that he is the one to blame, I go to the authorities, who, by the laws, help me.

In a conflict between two countries, FN is the one they should go to, the security council.

What is the meaning of winning a war if you at the same time act like criminals?

2 edits
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FMF
.............What exactly is the despicableness of the human shield tactic in this military situation?.........
It may force force X to ignore the problem if it wants to maintain a perceived moral high-ground. Though that may just be a gutless cop-out!

Vote Up
Vote Down

It's simple really, kill or be killed. The battle of Mogadishu is a perfect example. Both sides lose. Certainly one should do their best to avoid it, but there's only so much you can do.

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Beyer
It's simple really, kill or be killed.
I'm not sure it is so simple really. But I'll accept that you actually believe that for the sake of argument. In the cotext of this OP, do you mean "it's simple really, kill civilians or be killed"? I don't see how striking a 'balance' - deciding how many innocents will be killed, in order that soldiers' lives can be saved - can be regarded as "simple". Really.

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FMF
I'm not sure it is so simple really. But I'll accept that you actually believe that for the sake of argument. In the cotext of this OP, do you mean "it's simple really, kill [b]civilians or be killed"? I don't see how striking a 'balance' - deciding how many innocents will be killed, in order that soldiers' lives can be saved - can be regarded as "simple". Really.[/b]
Easy - sitting in my comfy chair I can expel sounds from many places! The fact that these kinds of choices are presented to young men is the problem.

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FMF
Force X is attacking inferior Force Y.

Force Y mingles with Civilians Y.

What exactly is the despicableness of the human shield tactic in this military situation?

(1) Is it because Force X now has no choice but to kill innocent civilians - a despicable course of action - in order to achieve its military objectives?

(2) or is it because ...[text shortened]... a despicable dilemma set up by Force Y's actions) in order to achieve its military objectives?
It depends on whether or not ForceX faces extinction if it does not wipe ForceY as it stands.

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by TerrierJack
Easy - sitting in my comfy chair I can expel sounds from many places! The fact that these kinds of choices are presented to young men is the problem.
I wasn't talking about the heat of battle. Sorry I did not make that clear. I am talking about calculated decsions by senior military commanders.

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
It depends on whether or not ForceX faces extinction if it does not wipe ForceY as it stands.
Well Force X does not face extinction. This was implied quite clearly by "Force X is attacking inferior Force Y" in the OP.

So, how about it then?

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FMF
Force X is attacking inferior Force Y.

Force Y mingles with Civilians Y.

What exactly is the despicableness of the human shield tactic in this military situation?

(1) Is it because Force X now has no choice but to kill innocent civilians - a despicable course of action - in order to achieve its military objectives?

(2) or is it because ...[text shortened]... a despicable dilemma set up by Force Y's actions) in order to achieve its military objectives?
for the sake of argument, assume that Force X has a legitimate reason for attacking Force Y - let's say Force Y is threatening to kill a portion of X's population and subject the rest of them to slavery. And let's assume that all peaceful efforts to resolve the dispute have failed.

Does Force X's fear of killing civilians mean that it cannot now do anything to prevent it's own population from a terrible slaughter?

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FMF
Well Force X does [b]not face extinction. This was implied quite clearly by "Force X is attacking inferior Force Y" in the OP.

So, how about it then?[/b]
if Force X's moral standards means that it is now unable to use it's force because of Force Y's tactics - then Force Y is no longer the "inferior force" - indeed, Force X now has zero force.

1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Melanerpes
for the sake of argument, assume that Force X has a legitimate reason for attacking Force Y - let's say Force Y is threatening to kill a portion of X's population and subject the rest of them to slavery. And let's assume that all peaceful efforts to resolve the dispute have failed.

Does Force X's fear of killing civilians mean that it cannot now do anything to prevent it's own population from a terrible slaughter?
If Force Y have the power, and will, to kill X's population, then they are both morally inferior and military superior. Don't change the conditions that ware given in the first posting.

Force X has never a legitimate reason to kill innocents.

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FMF
Force X is attacking inferior Force Y.

Force Y mingles with Civilians Y.

What exactly is the despicableness of the human shield tactic in this military situation?

(1) Is it because Force X now has no choice but to kill innocent civilians - a despicable course of action - in order to achieve its military objectives?

(2) or is it because ...[text shortened]... a despicable dilemma set up by Force Y's actions) in order to achieve its military objectives?
It's because it has now needless endangered the Civilians Y. X attacking the embedded military targets may or may not be justified, depending on the circumstances; but in either case, Force Y has now endangered Civilians Y by making them part of the battle that they otherwise would not have been a part of.

Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by sh76
It's because it has now needless endangered the Civilians Y. X attacking the embedded military targets may or may not be justified, depending on the circumstances; but in either case, Force Y has now endangered Civilians Y by making them part of the battle that they otherwise would not have been a part of.
So endangering civilians is more despicable than actually killing them?

2 edits
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If Force Y have the power, and will, to kill X's population, then they are both morally inferior and military superior. Don't change the conditions that ware given in the first posting.

Force X has never a legitimate reason to kill innocents.
I am assuming that Force X has some legitimate reason to attack Force Y. This would mean that Force Y is threatening X in some way. So Force Y would be superior at least as long as Force X chose not to act.

If Force Y is COMPLETELY inferior, then how could they possibly be a threat? The only thing Force Y would be able to do is issue empty threats that Force X would ignore. Force Y would eventually disperse by itself without causing any damage.

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.