Is this a sexist poem, as it could be considered in latter-day today's interpretations, or was it written in innocence in India by a Kipling who lived by sexist society.
If written today, wouldn't it be slaughtered for the usage of 'you'll be a man, my son', preceded by the value of running for a minute, men's doubting you as a man and so forth.
Or maybe Kipling was understanding women's rights of his time that were risked by no fault of their own, when he refers to risking all, starting again after losing out?
-m.
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Originally posted by mikelomYou should quit reading poetry. It is obviously too complex for you.
Is this a sexist poem, as it could be considered in latter-day today's interpretations, or was it written in innocence in India by a Kipling who lived by sexist society.
If written today, wouldn't it be slaughtered for the usage of 'you'll be a man, my son', preceded by the value of running for a minute, men's doubting you as a man and so forth.
Or may ...[text shortened]... ault of their own, when he refers to risking all, starting again after losing out?
-m.
Originally posted by mikelomNearly all literature, economics, politics, and philosophy have to be understood in the context of the time that they happened.
Is this a sexist poem, as it could be considered in latter-day today's interpretations, or was it written in innocence in India by a Kipling who lived by sexist society.
If written today, wouldn't it be slaughtered for the usage of 'you'll be a man, my son', preceded by the value of running for a minute, men's doubting you as a man and so forth.
Or may ...[text shortened]... ault of their own, when he refers to risking all, starting again after losing out?
-m.
For reference:
IF
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
Originally posted by SleepyguyIt could be read as a critique of the idealized concept of manhood or what it took to be considered a man in Kiplings 'stiff upper lip' culture, or does it seem possible that such a man existed.
[b]For reference:
[i]
IF
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If ...................................................
Originally posted by TerrierJackThought I'd get a few ubiquitous comments, such as yours. I was being reflexive and rhetorical..... or was that above you?
You should quit reading poetry. It is obviously too complex for you.
You made my day..... 😀
What I wrote was nonsensical, and totally irrelevent to the poem, but somehow you managed to link it..... excellent of you ... 😉
-m.