Immigration "Reform" Change of Heart

Originally posted by WoodPush
You both seem to miss the point that illegal immigrants both can and do pay taxes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/nyregion/16immig.html

on a tiny, tiny fraction of their aggregate income... The relatively few that do file is not the point and it cheapens any pro-immigrant argument to use a few anecdotes to ineffectively counteract a perfectly valid point.

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
They don't speak English, they don't have any job skills, and they are mostly
illiterate. Plus one mated pair will have a hundred grandchildren in another 25
years, all in the same boat, all waving their Mexican flags, screaming "La Raza",
and claiming half of America is really Mexico while they collect welfare...

Yes, by all means, the only sensible solution to the problem is to stereotype all
illegal immigrants, scapegoat them for all of the nation's problems, and equate
them to animals. "One mated pair will [multiply]"? Really?

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally?

Originally posted by Zapp Brannigan
How would they pay taxes?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/28/senate.dream.act/index.html?hpt=po_bn1

Ola Kaso, who was born in Albania and came to America at the age of 5, described
her predicament in a Senate hearing Tuesday.

"Despite my compliance with the law, there's no way I can achieve citizenship,"
said Kaso, now 18 and ready to start college in the fall at the University of
Michigan. "Despite aspirations and hard work, I face deportation in one year."

In short, she said, "I am a DREAM Act student."

Kaso referred to legislation pushed by Democrats but opposed by Republicans that
would give children of illegal immigrants a path to citizenship through military
service or college education.

[...]

"I ask my colleagues to consider the plight of these young people, who find
themselves in a legal twilight zone, through no fault of their own," said Sen. Dick
Durbin, D-Illinois, a leading proponent of the DREAM Act. "They are willing to
serve the country they love. All they ask for is a chance."

Another Democrat on the panel, Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California,
cited a university study that estimated students who would come under
the DREAM Act's provisions could contribute as much as $1.4 trillion to
the U.S. economy over a 40-year period.

"That's pretty compelling evidence that these students work hard, that
they care, and that they want to be part of the American dream," Feinstein
said, "and to the best of my knowledge the American dream has never
been an exclusive dream that only some people can share."

[...]

The DREAM Act would offer legal standing to immigrants who entered the United
States illegally as children under the age of 16 and had lived in the country for at
least five years.

The bill would require, among other things, a high school or General Educational
Development diploma, two years of college or military service, and criminal
background checks.

Advocates say the bill would give legal standing to young people brought to the
United States by their parents who have bettered themselves and served their new country.

[...]

Originally posted by sh76
on a tiny, tiny fraction of their aggregate income... The relatively few that do file is not the point and it cheapens any pro-immigrant argument to use a few anecdotes to ineffectively counteract a perfectly valid point.

2.9 million returns in 2005 doesn't seem like relatively few. Granted they don't actually contribute a whole lot of income total, but they also don't earn very much, and that's just the tax system.

If you want to argue that making them legal workers will mean that they contribute significant tax revenues, then the argument doesn't really hold when the tax system basically doesn't require them to pay meaningful taxes.

For what it's worth, I am very much in favor of giving legal standing to those currently here illegally. But I'm not sure I buy the argument that that really solves any tax problems.

Originally posted by WoodPush
2.9 million returns in 2005 doesn't seem like relatively few. Granted they don't actually contribute a whole lot of income total, but they also don't earn very much, and that's just the tax system.

If you want to argue that making them legal workers will mean that they contribute significant tax revenues, then the argument doesn't really hold when the ...[text shortened]... llegally. But I'm not sure I buy the argument that that really solves any tax problems.

They'd pay a lot more in payroll taxes (social security and Medicare tax)

Originally posted by wittywonka
Yes, by all means, the only sensible solution to the problem is to stereotype all
illegal immigrants, scapegoat them for all of the nation's problems, and equate
them to animals. "One mated pair will [multiply]"? Really?

How many illegal immigrants do you know personally?

I don't see how the post you responded to was phrased in a way which scapegoated illegal immigrants "for all the nation's problems", what I saw was legitimate concern about the US government's failure in protecting its citizens from the violence spilling out of Mexico.

If there are marauding bandits crossing the border illegally leaving a trail of destruction and plunder as they are at it, which no doubt there are, then its only reasonable that some members of the public will arrive at the conclusions you have criticized. The responsibility for this state of affairs ultimately rests on Obama's shoulders, since after all these years no immigration reform has been implemented, and it seems this particular matter only becomes worthy of attention when the Democrats are out to seek votes from Hispanics.

Originally posted by generalissimo
I don't see how the post you responded to was phrased in a way which scapegoated illegal immigrants "for all the nation's problems", what I saw was legitimate concern about the US government's failure in protecting its citizens from the violence spilling out of Mexico.

If there are marauding bandits crossing the border illegally leaving a trail of only becomes worthy of attention when the Democrats are out to seek votes from Hispanics.

This part of his post I didn't quote in my response:

Same with the boatloads of Somalians and Haitians we are improrting, they do nothing but breed and collect welfare, commit violent crimes, and garbage up our cities and schools, and they're legal. Our government has betrayed us for a few million voters that will do what they want and keep them in power.

The implication was that illegal immigrants, who are effectively the "same" as other legal immigrants, are at the least significantly responsible for many of the nations' problems, not the least of which are increasing crime rates, decreasing school quality, and evaporating entitlements. The reality is obviously far more complex.

It is fundamentally necessary for the U.S. to deliver comprehensive immigration reform. But stereotypes contribute nothing to the serious dialogue necessary to generate reform that is effective, reasonable, and ethical. That was the whole point of the OP.