Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
    07 Dec '05
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    14766
    30 Jul '17 19:12
    Since the individual mandate is a republican idea the dems should be opposed to it, but since Obama the DINO supported it now the dems are defending it as if it is their own idea and they never disliked it.

    So here we have democrats who passed the republican individual mandate and now defend the republican plan as if they were never duped into it. Are the democrats even aware they used to hate it?

    Lisa Markowski said she voted against a health care debate because she didn't think congress was ready for a debate. Did anybody ask her when they would be ready and if she would vote yes at a later date? Why not?

    Isn't the real reason the individual mandate was not repealed is because the republicans secretly support it? After all, it was their idea, right?
    What about all of these attempts to create a bill that would delay the repeal of the individual mandate for two years? It is as if the republicans want the dems to take control of congress so they can obstruct repealing it when they do.

    Trump keeps saying obamacare will implode, but how can that happen with an individual mandate? People are being coerced into buying insurance under the threat of a fine. As long as that is the case how can it implode? Prices for insurance would have to go up so much that the fine would be the best option for that to happen, right?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/health/policy/health-care-mandate-was-first-backed-by-conservatives.html

    It seems to me that the establishment wants the individual mandate and they manipulated the democrats into supporting a republican plan. Is it a surprise that the republicans secretly want obamacare to stay? Shouldn't it really be called republicare?
  2. Germany
    Joined
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    30 Jul '17 19:20
    Obamacare is a largely Republican plan (except for the Medicaid expansion I suppose). Republicans oppose it because Democrats passed it. Democrats passed it because it was the compromise they could eke out. No nefarious dark-alley "establishment" was involved.

    Trump doesn't even know what health insurance is, so it's hard to ascertain what he could mean by letting Obamacare "collapse" or "implode" or whatever.
  3. Joined
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    12091
    30 Jul '17 19:27
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Obamacare is a largely Republican plan (except for the Medicaid expansion I suppose). Republicans oppose it because Democrats passed it. Democrats passed it because it was the compromise they could eke out. No nefarious dark-alley "establishment" was involved.

    Trump doesn't even know what health insurance is, so it's hard to ascertain what he could mean by letting Obamacare "collapse" or "implode" or whatever.
    Dems pass a largely Rep plan on their own without orchestration behind closed doors?

    Whatever you say.
  4. Joined
    02 Jan '06
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    10087
    30 Jul '17 20:141 edit
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    Since the individual mandate is a republican idea the dems should be opposed to it, but since Obama the DINO supported it now the dems are defending it as if it is their own idea and they never disliked it.

    So here we have democrats who passed the republican individual mandate and now defend the republican plan as if they were never duped into it. Ar ...[text shortened]... that the republicans secretly want obamacare to stay? Shouldn't it really be called republicare?
    I think you will find that both parties are of the same mind. It just gets confusing sometimes because of all the mindless demagoguery. For example. John McCain blasted Obamacare and voted to repeal it under Obama, but only because he knew it would get vetoed. However, under Trump he knew it would get signed, so he voted against repeal.

    Both parties don't want you to have a choice, which is why we will have a single payer system very soon. Both parties are desperate for this even though Pubes, like McCain, claim otherwise.

    In short, they are all liars and hate freedom of choice given to the public. They are all collectivists and their gospel is centralized planning. It will be mandatory government rationing from here on out........unless you get elected to Congress. Those in Congress will get cared for no matter the cost.
  5. Behind the scenes
    Joined
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    30 Jul '17 20:35
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    Since the individual mandate is a republican idea the dems should be opposed to it, but since Obama the DINO supported it now the dems are defending it as if it is their own idea and they never disliked it.

    So here we have democrats who passed the republican individual mandate and now defend the republican plan as if they were never duped into it. Ar ...[text shortened]... that the republicans secretly want obamacare to stay? Shouldn't it really be called republicare?
    Interesting analysis, but regardless who's idea belongs to who's plan, the latest plan by the Senate would strip millions of what coverage they had.

    I think everyone here has lost sight of the fact that our health should NOT be treated as a means of profit by insurance company's, providers, and HMO's, but that's never going to happen in America as long corporations dictate who lives, and who dies depending on what coverage fits into their "parameters" 😞
  6. Germany
    Joined
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    3118
    30 Jul '17 20:41
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Dems pass a largely Rep plan on their own without orchestration behind closed doors?

    Whatever you say.
    It was "orchestrated" by senators based on their ideological, electoral and campaign funding concerns.
  7. Joined
    07 Dec '05
    Moves
    14766
    02 Aug '17 16:11
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Obamacare is a largely Republican plan (except for the Medicaid expansion I suppose). Republicans oppose it because Democrats passed it. Democrats passed it because it was the compromise they could eke out. No nefarious dark-alley "establishment" was involved.

    Trump doesn't even know what health insurance is, so it's hard to ascertain what he could mean by letting Obamacare "collapse" or "implode" or whatever.
    Are you aware that before 1973 it was illegal to profit from heath care in the USA?

    https://www.sott.net/article/351109-Thanks-Nixon-Before-1973-it-was-against-US-law-to-make-a-profit-off-of-health-care

    Then Nixon proposes a health care plan because it became so expensive after he allowed for profit health care.

    http://khn.org/news/nixon-proposal/

    Nothing nefarious you say?
  8. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
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    17585
    02 Aug '17 18:04
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Obamacare is a largely Republican plan (except for the Medicaid expansion I suppose). Republicans oppose it because Democrats passed it. Democrats passed it because it was the compromise they could eke out. No nefarious dark-alley "establishment" was involved.

    Trump doesn't even know what health insurance is, so it's hard to ascertain what he could mean by letting Obamacare "collapse" or "implode" or whatever.
    I don't entirely disagree with your analysis except that the vast increase in the specific types of benefits all plans must provide (e.g., contraception, 25 year old "children" etc.) is not a Republican idea.
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